📝 本节摘要：
本章涵盖了节目的精彩预告片段与正式开场。Duolingo 的产品经理 Jackson Shuttleworth 首先抛出核心数据：连胜机制（Streak）是公司最大的增长杠杆，目前有超过 900 万用户拥有超过一年的连胜记录。
主持人 Lenny 随后介绍了本期节目的独特之处——这将是一次前所未有的尝试，全集时长将完全聚焦于探讨“连胜”这单一功能的生与死。他指出 Duolingo 近期市值翻倍至 140 亿美元，该功能功不可没。最后，Jackson 正式登场，双方以“老听众，初次连线”的幽默寒暄开启了这场关于“经验富矿”的对话。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: ... Duolingo is a $14 billion company, it's hitting all-time highs too, it just keeps going up, but I think it doubled in value in the past six months.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: ……Duolingo（多邻国）是一家市值 140 亿美元的公司，它正创下历史新高，而且还在持续上涨，我想在过去六个月里它的市值翻了一番。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: Streaks is the most impactful feature. We have, right now, over 9 million users with a year plus streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 连胜（Streaks）是最具影响力的功能。此时此刻，我们拥有超过 900 万名连胜记录在一年以上的用户。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: If you look at the numbers, I think it's been our biggest growth lever. What Duolingo really focuses on is, how do we help users build habits around language learning? Getting user come back the next day is the biggest problem to solve.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 如果你看这些数据，我认为它是我们要最大的增长杠杆。Duolingo 真正关注的是，我们如何帮助用户围绕语言学习建立习惯？让用户第二天回来（继续使用）是需要解决的最大问题。
[原文] [Lenny (Teaser)]: Let's get into the motherload of learnings from the journey of streaks, talk about the key lessons, insights, and also wrong turns along the way.
[译文] [Lenny (预告片)]: 让我们深入挖掘关于连胜机制（streaks）发展历程中的“经验富矿”，谈谈关键的教训、见解，以及沿途走过的弯路。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: I'd say test everything, we've run in the last four years over 600 experiments on the streaks, so every other day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 我会说要测试一切，在过去四年里，我们在连胜功能上运行了超过 600 次实验，几乎每隔一天就有一次。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: We've actually set up really good infrastructure for copy testing. We used to say continue, our standard CTA is continue, and we changed that to commit to my goal, and it was a massive win.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 我们实际上为文案测试建立了非常好的基础设施。我们过去常说“继续（continue）”，我们的标准行动号召（CTA）是“继续”，后来我们将其改为“承诺我的目标（commit to my goal）”，这带来了一次巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: There's so much human psychology that you all learn through all these experiments of just how to motivate people, what motivates, what demotivates.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 通过所有这些实验，你们会学到很多人类心理学的知识，关于如何激励人们，什么能产生激励，什么会产生阻碍。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (Teaser)]: Say that you played a mobile game, or that you've done it for 3,000 days in a row, I don't know, maybe that hits a little bit different than you've learned Spanish for 3,000 days in a row.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth (预告片)]: 比如说你玩一款手游，或者你连续玩了 3000 天，我不知道，但这可能和你连续学习西班牙语 3000 天给人的感觉还是有点不同的。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: Today, my guest is Jackson Shuttleworth. Jackson is a group product manager at Duolingo, leading the retention team.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 今天，我的嘉宾是 Jackson Shuttleworth。Jackson 是 Duolingo 的集团产品经理，领导留存团队。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: This is a different kind of episode that I'm experimenting with, where we spent the entire conversation focused on the journey and lessons of a single feature, in this case, Duolingo streaks.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 这是一期与众不同的节目，我正在尝试一种新的形式，我们将整个对话都集中在单一功能的发展历程和经验教训上，在本期案例中，就是 Duolingo 的连胜（streaks）功能。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: Duolingo is a $14 billion business, just over the past six months, they doubled in value, they're hitting all time highs in usage and market cap, they're also one of the very few successful and also the single biggest consumer app business in the world.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: Duolingo 是一家价值 140 亿美元的企业，仅在过去六个月里，它们的市值就翻了一番，它们在用户使用量和市值上都创下了历史新高，它们也是世界上为数不多的成功案例之一，也是最大的单一消费者应用（consumer app）企业。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: And as you'll hear from Jackson, the streaks feature is the single most impactful feature that most contributed to this growth and success. In other words, you could argue this one feature created billions of dollars of value, which to me means it is worth studying in depth.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 正如你们将从 Jackson 那里听到的，连胜功能是对这种增长和成功贡献最大的单一最具影响力的功能。换句话说，你可以认为这一个功能创造了数十亿美元的价值，这对我来说意味着它值得深入研究。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: In our conversation, Jackson shares the history of the streaks feature, all of the biggest wins and wrong turns they've taken along the way, what he and his team have learned about what works and doesn't work with a streaks mechanic, and also how they set up their teams to operate in a way that allows them to run over 600 experiments on this product and continue to find big wins.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 在我们的对话中，Jackson 分享了连胜功能的历史，他们一路走来取得的所有最大胜利和走过的弯路，他和他的团队学到的关于连胜机制中哪些有效、哪些无效的经验，以及他们如何组建团队并以某种方式运作，从而允许他们在这个产品上运行超过 600 次实验并持续发现巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: I hope to do more episodes like this on features and products that you'd love to hear more about, so leave a comment either on YouTube or on Substack, and tell me which product or feature you'd love to see me cover.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 我希望针对大家想深入了解的功能和产品做更多这样的节目，所以请在 YouTube 或 Substack 上留言，告诉我你们想看我报道哪个产品或功能。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: And if you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube, it's the best way to avoid missing future episodes, and it helps the podcast tremendously.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 如果你喜欢这个播客，别忘了在你最喜欢的播客应用或 YouTube 上订阅和关注它，这是避免错过未来剧集的最好方法，而且这对播客的帮助巨大。
[原文] [Lenny (Host)]: With that, I bring you Jackson Shuttleworth. Jackson, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.
[译文] [Lenny (主持人)]: 话不多说，有请 Jackson Shuttleworth。Jackson，非常感谢你的到来，欢迎来到播客。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, thank you. Long time listener, first time caller. I appreciate it.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，谢谢你。老听众，第一次连线（First time caller）。我很感激。
[原文] [Lenny]: So, this is going to be a really interesting conversation, I've never done an episode like this before, where we basically spent an hour, an hour and a half going into one feature of one product, but this is a very special feature, it's a very special product.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这将是一次非常有趣的对话，我以前从未做过这样的节目，我们基本上要花一个小时、一个半小时来深入探讨一个产品的这一个功能，但这确实是一个非常特殊的功能，这是一款非常特殊的产品。
[原文] [Lenny]: Have you ever spent an hour, an hour and a half just talking about this one feature with anyone?
[译文] [Lenny]: 你有没有和任何人花一个小时、一个半小时只谈论这一个功能？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Well, internally, so when we onboard new folks to the team, we'll do, I actually just did this with somebody that joined the team recently, where we spent, yeah, I was like, hey, let's spend an hour just talking about the streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 嗯，在内部会有，当我们为团队新成员进行入职培训时我们会这么做，我实际上刚和最近加入团队的人做过这个，我们花了时间，是的，我就像是在说，嘿，让我们花一个小时只谈谈连胜机制。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: We got through an hour and I got through about 30% of what I wanted to share, there's just so much, we'll talk about this, but there's so much that we've learned over the years, but never anything externally like this.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们聊了一个小时，我大概只讲了我想分享内容的 30%，因为内容实在太多了，我们会聊到这些的，但这些年我们学到了太多东西，不过对外从来没有像这样（深入分享过）。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I think we've shared bits and pieces of learnings, but this will be the motherload of learnings hopefully-
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我想我们分享过零星的经验，但这一次希望能成为经验教训的“富矿（motherload）”……
[原文] [Lenny]: Here we go. ... of how Duolingo built the streak. We should title this the Motherload of Learnings of Duolingo Streaks.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我们开始吧。……关于 Duolingo 如何构建连胜机制。我们应该把这一期标题定为《Duolingo 连胜机制的经验富矿》。
📝 本节摘要：
在本章中，Jackson 首先明确了 Duolingo 连胜（Streak）的定义：它不仅是连续打卡的记录，还包含“连胜冻结（Streak Freezes）”这一关键的灵活性设计（被他称为“连胜保险”）。
随后，对话深入探讨了该功能的商业价值——它是 Duolingo 除核心课程外最大的日活（DAU）增长引擎。
最精彩的部分在于 Jackson 回顾了连胜机制的“进化史”：最初版本基于经验值（XP），导致用户因目标过高而断连；团队随后将其简化为“每天一课”，这一改动使得连胜成为了纯粹的“习惯养成”工具而非“能力测试”。最后，两人讨论了 Duolingo 的核心哲学：在教育类应用中，互动（Engagement）必须优先于学习（Learning），因为“用户如果不回来，就什么也学不到”。
[原文] [Lenny]: Okay, so for people that don't know anything about what Duolingo streaks are, can you just first give a brief explanation of what is Duolingo streaks? What is this feature all about?
[译文] [Lenny]: 好的，那么对于那些完全不了解 Duolingo 连胜（streaks）的人，你能不能先简单解释一下什么是 Duolingo 连胜？这个功能到底是关于什么的？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Well, presumably people know, Duolingo is a language learning app, the Duolingo streak tracks, currently anyway, how many days in a row you've done a lesson.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 嗯，假设大家都知道，Duolingo 是一款语言学习应用，Duolingo 的连胜功能追踪的是——至少目前是这样——你连续多少天完成了一节课程。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, you come to Duolingo, you do a lesson, your first lesson you'll start a streak, and then every consecutive day that you come use the app, you'll extend your streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，你来到 Duolingo，做一节课，你的第一节课会开启连胜，然后你之后每一天连续来使用应用，都会延长你的连胜记录。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And I should actually put an asterisk around how many days in a row because we also have built flexibility into the feature. So, we have these things called streak freezes, it's like insurance for your streaks.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我其实应该在“连续多少天”这个说法上加个星号（注脚），因为我们也在这项功能中内置了灵活性。所以，我们要有一种叫做“连胜冻结（streak freezes）”的东西，它就像是你连胜记录的保险。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, it's a pretty simple feature, in theory, but over time we've layered on challenges, and goal setting, and rewards, and social features... A lot of our notifications are tied to the streak. So, pretty simple feature to understand, but it's been a really rich feature for us to build on top of.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，理论上这是一个非常简单的功能，但随着时间的推移，我们在这个基础上叠加了挑战、目标设定、奖励和社交功能……我们的很多通知都与连胜绑定。所以，这是一个理解起来很简单的功能，但对于我们要以此为基础进行构建来说，它是一个非常丰富的功能。
[原文] [Lenny]: Some people might be hearing this and be like, Duolingo streaks, what's the big deal? There's other people that are like, holy, I want to learn everything I can possibly learn about Duolingo streaks, so many companies are trying to copy what you've learned from this. Give people a sense of the impact that this one feature has had on Duolingo's success and growth.
[译文] [Lenny]: 有些人听到这可能会想，Duolingo 连胜，有什么大不了的？但也有些人会想，天哪，我想尽可能了解关于 Duolingo 连胜的一切，那么多公司都在试图复制你们从中获得的经验。请给大家一个概念，这一个功能对 Duolingo 的成功和增长产生了多大的影响。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And this is not just the subjective retention PM talking, I think this is our biggest feature, with the exception of the lessons.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这不仅仅是我作为一个主观的留存产品经理（Retention PM）在说，我认为这是我们最大的功能，除了课程内容本身之外。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Streaks are a great engagement hack. I'm of the opinion that any team, any app out there can introduce a streak, and if you figure it out, it probably works to retain users, but at the core, you have to have an app that people want to use, and people really like using Duolingo.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 连胜是一个极好的互动黑客手段（engagement hack）。我的观点是，任何团队、任何应用都可以引入连胜机制，如果你弄明白了，它很可能对留住用户有效，但核心在于，你必须拥有一个人们愿意使用的应用，而人们真的很喜欢使用 Duolingo。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It's fun, it's delightful, you learn something. And so, it allows us to layer an engagement mechanic on top of that the streak is really powerful. So, it ships a disgusting amount of DAUs, again, it is one of our golden geese.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 它很有趣，令人愉悦，你能学到东西。因此，这允许我们在其之上叠加一个互动机制，即连胜，这真的非常强大。所以，它输送了数量惊人（disgusting amount）的日活跃用户（DAU），再说一次，它是我们“下金蛋的鹅”之一。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And again, what's cool is that, you look at notifications, notifications for Duolingo is massive. Us sending better, whether it's copy or timing, so many of our notifications work because they reference the streak, because users care about the streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 再次强调，很酷的一点是，你看通知（notifications），通知对 Duolingo 来说非常重要。我们发送更好的通知，无论是文案还是时机，我们的很多通知之所以有效，是因为它们引用了连胜，因为用户在乎连胜。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, not only is it itself, us iterating on the streak a huge driver of DAUs, but it's also something that enables other really high valuable features. I was looking up some stats before I came on, and it's pretty crazy. So, we have right now over 9 million users with a year plus streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，不仅仅是它本身——我们对连胜机制的迭代是 DAU 的巨大驱动力，而且它也是一种能赋能其他高价值功能的东西。我来之前查了一些统计数据，这相当疯狂。所以，我们现在有超过 900 万用户拥有超过一年的连胜记录。
[原文] [Lenny]: Wow. So, 9 million of our users have used Duolingo every year, almost every day, for well over a year. Which is pretty... I don't know, I like to imagine things in terms of like, okay, well, if you put all these people in a city, or in a place, where would it be? I'm like, ah, it's like a very large city, 9 million people.
[译文] [Lenny]: 哇。所以，900 万用户已经使用了 Duolingo 一整年，几乎每一天，持续了一年以上。这真是……我不知道，我喜欢把事情想象成，好吧，如果你把这些人放在一个城市，或者一个地方，那会是在哪里？我觉得，啊，那就像是一个非常大的城市，900 万人。
[原文] [Lenny]: Perfect. Okay. Talk about how this feature originally came to be. What was the original version of it? What was the original insight that led to...
[译文] [Lenny]: 完美。好了。谈谈这个功能最初是如何产生的吧。它的原始版本是什么样的？是什么原始的洞察导致了……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, so the oldest streaks or as old as Duolingo itself. When we launched Duolingo, we launched with a streak... And I say we, I was just graduating undergrad when Duolingo launched. So, this is well before my time. But we launched with a streak feature.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，最古老的连胜机制和 Duolingo 本身一样老。当我们发布 Duolingo 时，我们就推出了连胜功能……我说“我们”，其实 Duolingo 发布时我才刚本科毕业。所以，这远在我加入之前。但我们确实是带着连胜功能上线的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Initially how the feature worked was you'd come to Duolingo and you'd set a goal for yourself, and it was an XP based goal. So, Duolingo, a little bit of nomenclature, we have an experience point based system that drives a lot of our features in the app.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 最初这个功能的运作方式是，你来到 Duolingo，为自己设定一个目标，这是一个基于 XP（经验值）的目标。Duolingo 有一点术语（nomenclature），我们有一个基于经验值的系统，它驱动着应用中的许多功能。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And the way you'd set it is you'd say, based on what your language learning goal was, maybe you have a 10 experience point goal versus a 50 experience point goal. And so, extending your streak would be, hey, can you hit 50 experience points? If that's what you set your goal to be.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你设定它的方式是，根据你的语言学习目标，你可能有 10 点经验值的目标，或者是 50 点经验值的目标。所以，延长你的连胜记录就是，嘿，你能达到 50 点经验值吗？如果那是你设定的目标的话。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And this worked well, I think this also speaks to how Duolingo initially grew. Luis launched it with a TEDTalk, we probably had a more tech-forward user base initially, and so this whole idea of an experience points based streak system made sense.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这效果不错，我想这也说明了 Duolingo 最初是如何增长的。Luis（创始人）通过一场 TED 演讲发布了它，我们最初可能有一个更崇尚技术的用户群，所以这一整套基于经验值的连胜系统的想法是行得通的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But what that also meant is that you could have a user come and use the app, do multiple lessons a day, and maybe they just set too hard of a goal for themselves, and then lose their streak. Which, you don't need to be an expert in streaks to understand that's probably not good.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但这也意味着，可能有一个用户来使用应用，一天做了好几节课，但可能只是因为他们给自己设定的目标太难了，然后就失去了连胜。这——你不需要成为连胜专家也能明白——这可能不是件好事。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But I'd say one of the most impactful experiments we ran was about, this was actually as I was joining, or just after I joined we had run this experiment, was to move it from a XP based streak to just do one lesson a day, and you'd extend your streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但我要说，我们进行过的最具影响力的实验之一是关于——这实际上是在我加入时，或者就在我加入后不久我们进行的实验——将它从基于 XP 的连胜改为每天只需做一节课，你就能延长你的连胜。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And the risk that you can sort of imagine is, well, then users kind of care less about it because it's not connected with their goal. And we saw none of that. This was a huge driver of DAUs, just making it easier to extend your streak, but I think really importantly it's still meaningful.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你大概能想象到的风险是，好吧，那么用户可能会不那么在乎它了，因为它与他们的（学习）目标不再挂钩。但我们完全没有看到这种情况。这是 DAU 的巨大驱动力，只是让延长连胜变得更容易，但我认为真正重要的是它仍然是有意义的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: The unit of use, and as you're thinking about building a streak, I think it's really important to think about what the unit of use of your app is. The unit of use for Duolingo is doing a lesson.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 使用单位（unit of use），当你考虑构建连胜机制时，我认为思考你应用的使用单位是什么非常重要。Duolingo 的使用单位就是做一节课。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, if what we care about is users coming back every day and doing a lesson, because it shows that they're actually engaging with the app, then it doesn't hurt us to make our streak focus on just do one unit versus multiple.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，如果我们关心的是用户每天回来做一节课，因为这表明他们实际上在与应用互动，那么让我们的连胜机制专注于只做一个单位而不是多个单位，对我们并没有坏处。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It's also simple, and I think that's one of the things to think about with streaks. It's always easy as a PM to have a million goals or objectives for what you want your feature to be and potentially build a more complex feature, and a one lesson streak, it's just easy for more users to understand.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 它也很简单，我认为这是关于连胜需要思考的事情之一。作为产品经理，很容易对你的功能有一百万个目标或意图，并可能构建出一个更复杂的功能，而“一节课连胜”，它只是更容易被更多用户理解。
[原文] [Lenny]: Awesome. Okay, so I want to talk about the journey from that point to what it is today, but a quick tangent, I saw Luis tweet just this week, someone asked him, "How do you decide whether to optimize for learning or engagement?" And he's like, "No question, everything we do is focused on engagement because you won't learn anything if you're not coming back to the app."
[译文] [Lenny]: 太棒了。好的，我想谈谈从那时起到今天的历程，但先插个题外话，我看到 Luis 就在这周发了条推文，有人问他：“你们如何决定是优化学习效果还是优化互动（engagement）？”他说：“毫无疑问，我们所做的一切都专注于互动，因为如果你不回应用来，你就什么也学不到。”
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: As an engagement PM, that was the coolest thing he could have ever said. ... I am sure the learning folks at Duolingo will cringe when they hear it, I see myself as a learning PM as much as an engagement PM, because the easiest way not to learn on Duolingo is not to come back the next day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 作为一个互动产品经理，那真是他能说出的最酷的话了。……我确信 Duolingo 的学习团队听到这话会感到尴尬，但我把我自己看作是一个学习产品经理，正如我看作是一个互动产品经理一样，因为在 Duolingo 上学不到东西的最简单方法，就是第二天不回来了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, if we don't make the app retentive, you will have no opportunity to engage with our learning features. Now, I do think that there is a long tail of learning, where, if you start to dumb down... you start to dumb down the experience, and your users aren't actually learning, they're not going to care.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，如果我们不让应用具有留存性，你就没有机会接触我们的学习功能。当然，我也确实认为存在学习的长尾效应，如果你开始过度简化（dumb down）……你开始过度简化体验，导致用户实际上没有在学习，他们也就不会在乎了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Streaks work best when they're sitting on top of an app that users care about. But yeah, if you don't come learn on Duolingo.... If you don't come back to Duolingo, then you're not learning.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 只有当连胜机制建立在一个用户在乎的应用之上时，它才能发挥最大作用。但是是的，如果你不来 Duolingo 学习……如果你不回 Duolingo 来，那你就不在学习。
📝 本节摘要：
本章进入了访谈的“干货”部分，Jackson 分享了连胜机制发展过程中的关键成败。他首先讲述了一个“反直觉”的失败案例：团队试图将连胜门槛降低到“只需做一个练习”，结果发现这吸引了质量极低的用户，并没有带来实质性的留存增长。这引出了一个核心观点：连胜必须建立在有意义的“使用单位（Unit of Use）”之上。
随后，话题转向了成功的策略。Jackson 详细拆解了“连胜目标（Streak Goal）”功能的演变——从简单的提示文案，发展到让用户主动签署“承诺书”。这其中最精彩的洞察在于：增加摩擦（Friction）——例如添加“不，我放弃”的按钮——反而强化了用户的承诺感，从而大幅提升了留存率。此外，他还强调了文案测试（Copy Testing）的高回报，仅将按钮文案从“继续”改为“承诺我的目标”，就带来了巨大的增长。
[原文] [Lenny]: It makes sense to me. Okay, so lets get into the motherload of learnings from the journey of streaks. So, the first version went from XP to one lesson, talk about the key lessons, insights, and also wrong turns along the way to what we see today.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这对我来说很有道理。好，那让我们进入连胜机制发展历程中的“经验富矿”吧。第一个版本从 XP（经验值）变为了“一节课”，谈谈这一路上的关键教训、见解，以及走过的弯路，直到我们今天看到的样子。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Duolingo has very much, has a strong test it philosophy, we're willing to test a lot of different... Honestly, we'd much rather test it than debate it for days and days.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Duolingo 非常推崇“测试它（test it）”的哲学，我们愿意测试很多不同的……老实说，我们宁愿去测试它，也不愿为此争论好几天。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, we actually followed up this experiment with, and this is a little bit later, with hey, what if we make it even easier to extend your streak? And so, we actually tested, hey, if you do one exercise, just one exercise in a lesson will extend your streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们实际上在这个实验之后——这是稍微晚一点的时候——紧接着想，嘿，如果我们让延长连胜变得更简单会怎样？于是我们实际测试了：嘿，如果你只做一个练习（exercise），一节课里只做一个练习就能延长你的连胜。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: A lot of the insight was good, you look at the funnel, hey, there's a lot of users who are starting but not finishing lessons, they're not extending your streak, the loss aversion doesn't kick in, they don't come back... So, this followed that train of thought.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 很多洞察听起来是不错的，你看漏斗数据：嘿，有很多用户开始了课程但没有完成，他们没有延长连胜，损失厌恶（loss aversion）机制没有启动，他们就不回来了……所以，这个实验是顺着这个思路来的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: What we realized when we ran this experiment is DAUs moved not one bit. And what we were doing by... And if we go back to unit of measure, we had dumbed down the unit of... Nobody thinks about, oh, I just want to come do one question on Duolingo, nobody thinks about that.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 当我们运行这个实验时，我们意识到 DAU（日活跃用户）纹丝不动。而我们所做的……如果回到“计量单位”这个话题，我们实际上过度简化（dumbed down）了这个单位……没人会想“噢，我只想去 Duolingo 做一道题”，没人会那么想。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, we had a less clear unit of measure that we were basing our streak around, and the users that we were capturing with our streak, you come, you do one or two questions on Duolingo, then you leave, were the least engaged users imaginable.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们构建连胜机制的基础是一个不太清晰的计量单位，而我们通过这种连胜机制捕获的用户——那些来做一两道题就走的人——是你能想象到的参与度最低的用户。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, I think that's something also to think about as you're building your streak, is like what is the user that you're solving for? So, not only what is the habit that you're building for, but what is the level of commitment, and that was an example where we over indexed on a type of user who we honestly just weren't going to keep, that was a very easy shutdown decision.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我认为这是你在构建连胜机制时需要思考的事情：你在为哪类用户解决问题？不仅是你在建立什么习惯，还有承诺的程度是多少。那是一个我们过度关注某类用户的例子，老实说这类用户我们根本留不住，所以那是一个非常容易做出的“关停”决定。
[原文] [Lenny]: That's an awesome story, just to comment in that real quick. ... It makes me think of Farmville, where you have to go and harvest your crops every, whatever, hour, that lasts for a bit and then eventually people are like, what the hell am I doing with my life?
[译文] [Lenny]: 这是一个很棒的故事，我快速评论一下。……这让我想起了 Farmville（开心农场），你必须每隔一小时去收割庄稼，这能维持一阵子，但最终人们会想：我到底在拿我的人生干什么？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, exactly. We test every, I was looking at the numbers as well, we've run in the last four years, over 600 experiments on the streaks. So, every other day effectively we're running an experiment.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，没错。我们测试一切，我也看了数据，在过去四年里，我们在连胜机制上运行了超过 600 个实验。所以实际上几乎每隔一天我们就在运行一个实验。
[原文] [Lenny]: What else? What else have you learned along the journey?
[译文] [Lenny]: 还有什么？这一路上你还学到了什么？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Well, maybe I can talk about a few different ways that we structure, a few different themes that I think we lean on. So, the first is focusing on the zero to seven day user experience.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 嗯，也许我可以谈谈我们构建的几种不同方式，或者说我们依赖的几个不同主题。首先是专注于 0 到 7 天的用户体验。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And a lot of this is because we've looked at the data for our retention curves, and what we found is that once you get to seven days, loss aversion kicks in, and you retain.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]:这很大程度上是因为我们查看了留存曲线的数据，我们发现一旦你达到了 7 天，损失厌恶（loss aversion）就会生效，你就会留存下来。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, going from a one to a two-day streak, huge jump in retention, two to three day streak, slightly less but still huge and it's up until day seven. Once you hit day seven, it flans out.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，从 1 天连胜到 2 天连胜，留存率有巨大提升；2 天到 3 天，稍微少一点但依然巨大，这种情况一直持续到第 7 天。一旦你到了第 7 天，曲线就平缓了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: One of the fun ones that we did, and it's honestly as much about process as it is about the feature itself, was we have a feature called streak goal... We had this idea of like, hey, maybe we'll just goal users to hitting a certain streak length.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们做过的一个有趣的实验——老实说这既关乎流程也关乎功能本身——是我们有一个叫做“连胜目标（streak goal）”的功能……我们的想法是：嘿，也许我们可以给用户设定一个目标，让他们达到一定的连胜长度。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: As you can imagine, this is pretty powerful user psychology, and we started with the simplest version of this. ... And so, we had a similar thought, where it's like, oh, let's just tell you how much more likely you are to finish the course if you get a 30-day streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你可以想象，这利用了非常强大的用户心理学，我们从最简单的版本开始。……所以，我们当时的想法类似：噢，让我们直接告诉你，如果你达到 30 天连胜，你完成课程的可能性会提高多少。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, we started with that, and I think it was like you're seven times more likely to finish the course if you have a 30-day streak, and just that message when you started your streak, I telling you that, was awesome. Huge win.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以我们从那个开始，文案大概是“如果你有 30 天连胜，你完成课程的可能性是原来的 7 倍”，仅仅是在你开始连胜时告诉你这条信息，效果就太棒了。巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, we followed that up with another experiment, where we tested different lengths. So, we test 14 days and 50 days, and we found that they were all good, but they appealed to different users.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以我们紧接着做了另一个实验，测试了不同的时长。我们测试了 14 天和 50 天，发现它们都不错，但吸引的是不同的用户。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, then we followed that experiment up with, all right, let's start with 30 days, and then we're going to let you opt out, we'll say, no, I don't think I can hit it. ... And the learning here was that this intentionality of saying, no, I want it... Previously it was just a continue button, but now it's like, no, I want to hit 30 days, and having that be an intentional decision for them, yes or no.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 然后我们又跟进了一个实验：好吧，让我们从 30 天开始，然后我们要让你能选择退出（opt out），我们会让你说“不，我不觉得我能达到”。……这里的经验是，这种说“不”或“我想要”的意向性（intentionality）……以前只是一个“继续”按钮，但现在变成了“不，我想要达到 30 天”，让他们做一个有意识的决定，是或否。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Everything that I'm talking about now was just that screen that day, and then was all thrown out. So, that optionality was a huge insight, and so because of that, we built a goal setting feature where you could choose between different goals, giving users that optionality was likewise a huge win.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我现在说的所有这一切都只是那一天的那个屏幕上的事，过后就都不作数了（注：指这只是个心理承诺，没有实质惩罚）。所以，这种“可选择性”是一个巨大的洞察，因此我们构建了一个目标设定功能，你可以选择不同的目标，给用户这种选择权同样是一个巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Lenny]: There's so much human psychology that you all learn through all these experiments of just how to motivate people, what motivates, what demotivates, it feels like you guys should write a book on human psychology and motivation.
[译文] [Lenny]: 你们通过所有这些实验学到了太多关于人类心理学的知识，关于如何激励人们，什么能激励，什么会打击积极性，感觉你们应该写一本关于人类心理学和动机的书。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I feel very much like a amateur armchair psychologist with everything that, at least as far as people who want to learn languages on their phone go...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我确实感觉自己非常像一个业余的“安乐椅心理学家（armchair psychologist，指纸上谈兵的心理学家）”，至少在针对那些想在手机上学语言的人这方面……
[原文] [Lenny]: Got it. So, just to double down on that point, it's not just random experiments, it's here's a hypothesis we're fairly confident, or has a chance to be true, let's try it.
[译文] [Lenny]: 明白了。所以，为了强调这一点，这不仅仅是随机的实验，而是“这是一个我们相当有信心的假设，或者有机会成真的假设，让我们试一试”。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah. ... With copy, for instance, we've actually set up really good infrastructure for copy testing. I'm of the opinion that companies should run, as long as you have the user base to do it, copy test constantly.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的。……以文案（copy）为例，我们实际上为文案测试建立了非常好的基础设施。我的观点是，只要你有足够的用户群，公司就应该持续不断地进行文案测试。
[原文] [Lenny]: Is there an example of that, of just the impact?
[译文] [Lenny]: 有没有这方面的例子，展示一下它的影响？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Going back to that goal screen, we used to say Continue, our standard CTA is Continue, and we changed that to Commit To My Goal, and it was a massive win. And again, it was like, okay, users tapping on that, what are we asking them to do? Commit to the goal, what is that going to lead them to do? Commit, not churn. Just that little copy change, that one time, right there, led to huge wins.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 回到那个目标设定的屏幕，我们过去常说“继续（Continue）”，这是我们标准的行动号召（CTA），后来我们把它改成了“承诺我的目标（Commit To My Goal）”，这是一个巨大的胜利。再说一次，这就像是，好吧，用户点击那个，我们在要求他们做什么？承诺目标。这会引导他们做什么？去承诺，而不是流失。仅仅是那一点点文案的改变，就在那个时刻，带来了巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, all of our changes at Duolingo go through product review that are reviewed by Luis, so Luis reviews every single change that we propose... Typically with copy, he's just like, I don't know, test it, there's nothing better than be told by Luis, I don't think this is going to win, but sure, if you want to. And a lot of times, to his credit, he's right, and a lot of times our intuition was right...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，Duolingo 的所有变更都要经过产品评审，由 Luis（CEO）亲自评审，所以 Luis 会审查我们提出的每一个变更……通常对于文案，他会说：“我不知道，测测看吧。”没有什么比听到 Luis 说“我不觉得这个会赢，但当然，如果你想测就测吧”更棒的了。而且很多时候，值得称赞的是，他是对的；但也很多时候，我们的直觉是对的……
📝 本节摘要：
面对数百次实验可能导致的产品“碎片化”或“功能臃肿（Feature Bloat）”风险，Jackson 揭示了 Duolingo 的治理机制：除了 CEO Luis 亲自把关所有变更外，团队还会定期进行“战略性重置”，即为了长远体验而主动推翻某些经过优化的局部设计。
随后，对话触及了连胜机制的核心本质。Jackson 指出，与游戏不同，语言学习的反馈周期极长，用户很难感知到每天的微小进步（Fluency）。因此，“连胜”不仅仅是一个留存工具，它实际上充当了“进度的代理指标”，让用户在漫长的流利度提升过程中能感受到从量变到质变的有形积累。
[原文] [Lenny]: So, on this thread, I didn't realize Louis reviews everything you're planning to change, and this may be the answer to the question I was going to ask, which is, one of the criticisms of running a product and company this way, of just experimenting constantly with all these micro improvements and changes, is it can lead to something, like a monstrosity of a product and experience that isn't consistent and cohesive, and just that often happens.
[译文] [Lenny]: 顺着这个话题，我之前没意识到 Louis 会审查你们计划更改的所有内容，这可能正好回答了我原本想问的问题。对于这种运作产品和公司的方式——即不断进行各种微小的改进和变更实验——有一个批评声音是，它可能会导致某种后果，比如造出一个由不一致且不连贯的体验拼凑成的“畸形产品（monstrosity）”，这种情况经常发生。
[原文] [Lenny]: Is the solution to that having the founder basically review all the changes? Is there anything else y'all do to avoid it becoming Farmville or whatever, is a good example of that?
[译文] [Lenny]: 解决这个问题的办法是让创始人基本上审查所有的变更吗？为了避免它变成像 Farmville（开心农场）或其他这类典型的例子，你们还做了什么吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, our product review structure where we've got our head of product design, one of the lead, the product management leaders, and then Luis, NPR. And because they see everything, and they have a really high product bar, and so that helps.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，我们的产品评审结构包括产品设计负责人、一位产品管理负责人，以及 Luis（CEO）。因为他们会看所有的东西，而且他们的产品标准非常高，所以这很有帮助。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I think over time we just, as PMs, have to look at, okay, where is our feature headed? And so, we do this with the streak at least on a quarterly basis, to look at, okay, well, what have we learned, how has our streak developed, and how do we imagine this going in near future?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我认为随着时间的推移，作为产品经理，我们必须去审视：好吧，我们的功能将走向何方？所以，我们至少每个季度会对连胜功能做一次这样的审视，看看：好吧，我们学到了什么？我们的连胜功能是如何发展的？我们如何设想它在不久的将来的走向？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It's easy to do, and in some sort of awful local maxima, if you're not constantly looking at your roadmap and you don't have a clear strategy. For me it's like, if you have a clear strategy where your feature is going, hopefully all of those A/B tests are not just done to get some cheap gain, they're done with a long-term goal in mind.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 很容易陷入某种糟糕的“局部最优解（local maxima）”，如果你不经常审视你的路线图并且没有一个清晰的战略的话。对我来说，如果你对功能的走向有一个清晰的战略，那么希望所有的那些 A/B 测试不仅仅是为了获得一些廉价的收益，而是为了实现一个长期的目标。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I do think though, and we do this every now and then with the streak, eventually you just hit a local maxima, and you say, you talked about launching neutral experiments, this is a great example, where it's like all right, cool, now we need to throw a bunch of this stuff out, based on all the learnings, can we reset this real estate, can we reset this UI, reset this feature, in such a way that is just as good as what we have now but is way more plain or simple, that we can, again, start to layer on?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 尽管如此，我确实认为——我们在连胜功能上偶尔也会这么做——最终你会触碰到一个局部最优解，然后你会说——你之前提到过发布“中性实验”，这就是一个很好的例子——你会觉得：好吧，酷，现在我们需要把这一堆东西扔掉，基于所有的经验教训，我们能不能重置这块版面，重置这个 UI，重置这个功能？让它在保持现有效果的同时变得更加朴素或简单，这样我们就可以再次开始在上面进行叠加？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Those are really hard experiments to get to win obviously, because they are so optimized, but they're really important to do, otherwise, yeah, you just end up with a kitchen sink of a feature.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 显然，这些实验很难取得胜利（指数据上的提升），因为原有的版本已经经过了高度优化，但做这些真的很重要，否则，是的，你最终只会得到一个“大杂烩（kitchen sink，指什么都往里塞）”式的功能。
[原文] [Lenny]: One other tidbit I just want to mention, an advantage you all have that other companies don't have is people want to learn a language, and so getting pushed to come back to an app for something that they want to do, it's not an advantage a lot of products have. So, anything you want to add there, of just like this is why Duolingo might be a little different from what you're working on.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我还想提一个小细节，你们拥有的一个其他公司没有的优势是，人们想要学习一门语言，所以被督促回到一个应用去做他们本来就想做的事情，这不是很多产品都具备的优势。所以，关于这一点你有什么想补充的吗？比如这解释了为什么 Duolingo 可能和你（听众）正在做的产品有点不同。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: That is definitely a benefit, if I had an app... And that this is actually why I think a lot of mobile games do streaks differently, because to say that you played a mobile game, and as somebody who plays a lot of mobile games, that you've done it for 3000 days in a row, I don't know, maybe that hits a little bit different than you've learned Spanish for 3000 days in a row.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这绝对是一个好处，如果我有一个应用……这实际上也是为什么我认为很多手游做连胜机制的方式不同的原因，因为说你玩了一款手游——作为一个玩了很多手游的人来说——说你连续玩了 3000 天，我不知道，但这感觉可能和你连续学习西班牙语 3000 天还是有点不同的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I think the comparison set is much larger though, than a lot of companies give themselves credit for, and I think that there's... There's a lot of ways that companies think about their... There are very few companies I imagine out there in the world saying, oh, we don't do some degree of good for our users... Even if it's like a game, it's like, I don't know, you're giving somebody a moment away from the craziness of their lives.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 不过我认为，可比较的范围其实比很多公司自己认为的要大得多。我想世界上很少有公司会说“噢，我们没有为用户做某种程度的好事”……即使是一款游戏，比如，我不知道，你可能是在给某人提供一个逃离疯狂生活的片刻。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, I do think though that is contingent on companies who are going to figure out if a streak works for them, to figure out how can you frame the streak in such a way that a user does feel good about it. And it's easier for a Duolingo, but I think there's creative ways to phrase this for users.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我确实认为，这取决于那些打算弄清楚连胜机制是否适用的公司，去搞清楚如何构建（frame）这个连胜，让用户确实对此感觉良好。对于 Duolingo 来说这更容易，但我认为还有很多创造性的方式可以向用户表达这一点。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: The other thing maybe just on that that I'll say is, the streak works really well for Duolingo because with language learning it's really hard to see day-to-day progress in becoming more fluent. And fluency is not even the right word, it's like becoming better at Spanish or whatever, it is a years long process for someone to get better at a language.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 关于这点我要说的另一件事是，连胜机制对 Duolingo 特别有效，因为在语言学习中，你很难看到自己在变得更流利这件事上的“逐日进步”。“流利（Fluency）”甚至不是一个准确的词，应该是说变得更擅长西班牙语或其他语言，对于一个人来说，精通一门语言是一个长达数年的过程。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Duolingo makes it easier, but you still got to put in thousands of hours if you're going to reach C1 or C2 fluency, and that is really hard to track on a day-to-day, and so the streak works really well for us because we might not be able to tell you, hey, you now know 0.01% more Spanish, but we can show you, hey, you've gotten your streak a little bit higher.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Duolingo 让这变得更容易，但如果你想达到 C1 或 C2 级别的流利度，你仍然需要投入数千小时，而这在日常基础上真的很难追踪。所以连胜机制对我们非常有效，因为我们可能无法告诉你“嘿，你现在多懂了 0.01% 的西班牙语”，但我们可以向你展示“嘿，你的连胜记录又高了一点”。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, I think this works particularly well when you're an app that is doing something that's going to be sensed or felt over a longer term to help contextualize that progress in a way that makes more sense, or at least feels more tangible to a user.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我认为当你是一个做长线回报（longer term）事情的应用时，这种机制特别有效，它能以一种更合理，或者至少让用户感觉更有形（tangible）的方式，将这种进步具体化（contextualize）。
[原文] [Lenny]: Great, that was a great context. Empowering to a lot of companies that aren't necessarily doing language learning.
[译文] [Lenny]: 太棒了，这个背景信息很有价值。这对很多不一定是做语言学习的公司来说也是一种鼓舞。
📝 本节摘要：
本章重点讨论了产品的清晰度（Clarity）与核心指标。Jackson 指出，许多用户流失仅仅是因为他们根本没看懂“连胜”的规则。他分享了一个经典的“8 字文案”实验，仅通过一句话解释规则就带来了巨大的留存提升。
在此基础上，他详细拆解了 Duolingo 的增长北极星指标——CURR（当前用户留存率），并解释了为何该指标比单纯的 DAU 更具指导意义。
随后的对话进入了反思环节：Jackson 讲述了一个“成功但不被采用”的实验——在课程中显示 XP 增长。虽然这提升了数据，但团队认为它破坏了课程作为“学习圣殿（Learning Sanctuary）”的纯粹性，最终将其关停。最后，他谈到了设计上的教训：在跨文化背景下（如印度），“火焰”作为连胜的隐喻并不总是有效，设计应优先展示直观的数字而非抽象的图形。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Again, sticking with this one to seven day streak, the idea of a streak, particularly probably to this audience, is obvious. Like, oh, it's a streak, it just counts how many days.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 再说回这个 1 到 7 天的连胜阶段，连胜的概念，特别是对于现在的听众来说，可能是显而易见的。就像是，噢，这就是个连胜，它只是计算多少天而已。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: We've realized over time that a lot of users do not understand how a streak works, and it can be as small as, well, I don't understand how streak freezes work, or I don't... Like my mom the other day was talking to you about it, she's like, "Oh, I didn't use Duolingo and I come back and my streak's still there."
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们随着时间的推移意识到，很多用户并不理解连胜是如何运作的，这可能小到比如“我不懂连胜冻结（streak freezes）怎么用”，或者我不……就像我妈前几天还在跟我聊这个，她说：“噢，我没用 Duolingo，但我回来时我的连胜还在。”
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, there's certain elements of the feature that we can do better at explaining, but even what a streak is, it's tracking how many days that I've used the app, yeah, the more that we can make the feature easily comprehensible to users, the more retentive it is. And we've run a number of experiments to do this.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，这个功能的某些要素我们可以解释得更好，但哪怕是“什么是连胜”——即追踪我使用这个应用多少天了——是的，我们越能让这个功能对用户来说通俗易懂，它的留存效果就越好。为了做到这一点，我们已经运行了很多实验。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: You asked about early easy copy changes that we made. Actually, this is my first win experiment when I joined Duolingo was, when you start a streak, we have little copy at the bottom of the screen that just, I don't know, it's like flavor copy, we use it to celebrate you, or give you context, and I ran some tests that just tried to in eight words explained what a streak was, that was it.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你问到了我们早期做的简单的文案修改。实际上，这是我加入 Duolingo 后的第一个胜利实验：当你开始连胜时，我们在屏幕底部有一小段文案，我不知道，它就像是那种氛围文案（flavor copy），用来庆祝你或者给你一些背景信息，而我做了一些测试，试图只用 8 个单词解释清楚什么是连胜，仅此而已。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And it was a massive win because it really dumbed down here is exactly how the streak worked, and it really helped users just understand what they needed to do.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 结果这是一次巨大的胜利，因为它真正极简地（dumbed down）说明了连胜到底是如何运作的，这真的帮助用户理解了他们需要做什么。
[原文] [Lenny]: What was the actual copy, do you remember?
[译文] [Lenny]: 实际的文案是什么，你还记得吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It was... I think it's still on the app, it's like, "Start a day to extend your streak, but miss a day and it resets," something like that.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 那是……我想它还在应用上，大概是：“开始一天以延长连胜，但错过一天它就会重置（Start a day to extend your streak, but miss a day and it resets）”，差不多是这样。
[原文] [Lenny]: That makes sense to me. Very clear. ... In eight words, I love that. Okay. And then, when you say massive win by the way, just to give people a reference point, what does that look like? What is a massive win in this scale?
[译文] [Lenny]: 这对我来说很有道理。非常清晰。……只用了 8 个词，我喜欢。好的。顺便问一下，当你说“巨大的胜利”时，为了给大家一个参考坐标，那看起来是什么样的？在这个量级下，什么是巨大的胜利？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Well, and it's funny, and this was four years ago, but I think it was in the order of magnitude of over 10,000 DAUs for us, and actually, maybe a small bit of context. So, Duolingo really cares about the metric CURR current user retention rate...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 嗯，很有趣，这是四年前的事了，但我认为对我们来说那是超过 10,000 DAU（日活用户）量级的增长，实际上，也许需要一点背景信息。Duolingo 非常关注一个指标：CURR，即当前用户留存率（Current User Retention Rate）……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: To summarize, basically, what we found is that, if we wanted to drive DAUs, and Duolingo cares, our growth North Star is DAUs, the metric that is most effective, where a percentage change in that metric is most effective at driving DAUs is current user retention rate. And this is just users who are not new or resurrected, getting them to come back tomorrow.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 总结一下，基本上我们发现，如果我们想推动 DAU——这也是 Duolingo 关心的，我们的增长北极星指标是 DAU——那么能最有效地推动 DAU 的指标（即该指标的百分比变化对 DAU 影响最大）就是当前用户留存率（CURR）。这指的就是那些非新用户、非回流用户，让他们明天继续回来。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, most of the work that our teams do, our retention-based teams do is focused on CURR. And so, the retention team that I lead focused on CURR, it just so happens the streak is the best feature at driving CURR. And so, this experiment was the biggest CURR win that we had had, and it was like a top three CURR win, anyway for us. Just this little copy.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们团队——基于留存的团队——所做的大部分工作都集中在 CURR 上。所以我领导的留存团队专注于 CURR，而连胜恰好是驱动 CURR 最好的功能。所以，这个实验是我们取得的最大的 CURR 胜利，反正对我们来说是前三名的 CURR 胜利。仅仅是这一小段文案。
[原文] [Lenny]: I love this. Okay, so you said 10,000 DAUs, I think that references you guys measure incremental impact and absolute numbers of new daily users you're going to drive attributed to that experiment, is what it sounds like.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我喜欢这个。好，你说 10,000 DAU，我想这指的是你们衡量的增量影响，以及归因于该实验所驱动的新增日活用户的绝对数量，听起来是这样。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, and we do both. We'll also look at, a lot of times I'll look at, for retention, day one versus day seven versus day 14, a lot of what I'm looking for is for us to have a better day 14 impact than better day one impact because it means that users are retaining better over time.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，我们两者都看。我们也经常看——对于留存来说——第 1 天 vs 第 7 天 vs 第 14 天的数据，我寻找的往往是我们在第 14 天有比第 1 天更好的影响，因为这意味着用户随着时间的推移留存得更好了。
[原文] [Lenny]: coming back to the idea of just experimenting like crazy and not creating a product that nobody wants to use anymore, is there an example of an experiment that was positive that you all decided, no, we don't actually think this is what we want in the product, they ended up not shipping?
[译文] [Lenny]: 回到这种疯狂实验但又不想创造出一个没人想用的产品的想法上，有没有这样一个例子：一个实验数据是正向的，但你们决定“不，我们实际上不认为这是我们在产品中想要的东西”，最终没有发布？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Retention doesn't only work on the streak, although you would think... Most of our work is the streak. We've touched a lot of different surfaces over the years and there was one experiment that we launched that, we talked about XP earlier, in the lesson, the only UI elements are a progress bar at the top, and then how many hearts you have.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 留存工作不仅仅在连胜上起作用，虽然你会觉得……我们大部分工作是关于连胜的。这些年来我们也触及了很多不同的界面，我们曾经上线过一个实验——我们之前谈到过 XP（经验值）——在课程（lesson）中，唯一的 UI 元素就是顶部的进度条，以及你有多少颗红心。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, we keep it really simple, and this very much speaks to the design philosophy of Duolingo, which is simpler UI is better, and we decided, hey, let's add XP in there. And so let's show your XP ticking up as you're going through a lesson, that's going to make the user feel good, it's going to show you what you've earned, you're going to be less likely to quit, all of these good reasons to do it.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们保持它非常简单，这非常符合 Duolingo 的设计哲学，即更简单的 UI 更好。然后我们决定，嘿，让我们把 XP 加进去。让我们在你上课的过程中显示你的 XP 在不断增加，这会让用户感觉良好，展示你赢得了什么，你会不太想退出，做这件事有所有这些正当理由。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And it won, the hypothesis was a good one. But we realized, and I remember having this conversation with Luis, is like, cool, this is our most important screen in the app, it is our lesson, it is where users learn, and the focus here is on learning. And now you've added this other thing up there that could be distracting for users.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 而且它赢了（指数据上涨），这个假设是不错的。但我们意识到——我记得和 Luis 有过这段对话——就像是：酷，这是我们应用中最重要的一个屏幕，它是我们的课程，是用户学习的地方，这里的重点是学习。而现在你在上面加了这个别的东西，可能会让用户分心。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And what we realized is that, honestly, it was just an easy engagement win idea, but we had touched our most sacred space in the app to do that. And so, that was a case where it's like, yeah, it was a nice win, but we'd added that UI element, and at least at the time it was less clear what we would do with it and we realized that long term it was just going to get in the way, and we'd rather, for simplicity's sake, pause that, shut it down, and keep the lesson to be a little bit of learning sanctuary it was.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们意识到，老实说，这只是一个简单的互动胜利点子，但我们为了做到这一点触碰了我们应用中最神圣的空间。所以，这就是一个案例：是的，这是一个不错的胜利，但我们添加了那个 UI 元素，而且至少在当时不太清楚我们要拿它做什么，我们意识到从长远来看它只会碍事，为了简洁起见，我们宁愿暂停它，关掉它，让课程保持它原本那种“学习圣殿（learning sanctuary）”的状态。
[原文] [Lenny]: That is an awesome example. ... What else have you learned and things that didn't work along the journey?
[译文] [Lenny]: 这是一个极好的例子。……在这一路上你还学到了什么？还有什么行不通的事情？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: The other thing that I'll call out with the streak, it's like we have the... The image of the streak is this flame. And we have the streak flame, and it's very much core to our iconography. It's important to acknowledge that that's a metaphor for a retention mechanic. The idea of keeping a flame lit.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 另一件关于连胜我要指出的事是，我们有……连胜的形象是这个火焰。我们有连胜火焰，这在很大程度上是我们图标设计的核心。必须承认，这是对留存机制的一种隐喻（metaphor）。即“保持火焰燃烧”这个概念。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: We did some UXR in India many years ago, and this was something that just did not resonate at all there, which was a really interesting learning. ... the more global UXR you can do to understand how users are actually understanding and experience your feature, the better...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 许多年前我们在印度做了一些用户体验研究（UXR），这个概念在那里完全没有引起共鸣，这是一个非常有趣的教训。……你能做越多的全球 UXR 来了解用户实际上如何理解和体验你的功能，就越好……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, even our screen design, we used to have a flame, it was mostly this flame that would light up every day. ... when we redesigned it, we did this, Kurt, one of our animators, did this awesome odometer animation where it's like your number would tick every day...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，即使是我们的屏幕设计，以前只有一个火焰，主要是这个每天会亮起的火焰。……当我们重新设计它时，我们这样做了——Kurt，我们的动画师之一，做了一个很棒的里程表动画，就像你的数字每天都在跳动……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It looked good, but from a product perspective, what was cool is we actually focused the design on the screen to show your number going up, and then it would say seven day streak, eight day streak. And I think that as you're thinking about designing around a streak, don't get too caught up into what is this the beautiful story that you're trying to tell, at the expense of it being a really comprehensible feature.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 它看起来很棒，但从产品角度来看，最酷的是我们实际上把屏幕设计的重点放在了展示你的数字增长上，然后它会显示 7 天连胜、8 天连胜。我认为当你考虑围绕连胜进行设计时，不要过于沉迷于你想讲述的这个美丽故事，而牺牲了它作为一个真正易于理解的功能。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, as you're thinking about product design, making that product design a clear distillation of this is what we're actually tracking, form should follow a function here, was a learning for us.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，当你思考产品设计时，要让设计清晰地提炼出“这就是我们实际在追踪的东西”，在这里形式应该追随功能（form should follow a function），这对我们来说是一个教训。
📝 本节摘要：
本章以 Jackson 展示的一份特殊礼物——改编版“宁静祷文”开场，这象征了 Duolingo 连胜机制的核心哲学：在“灵活性”与“完美”之间寻求平衡。
Jackson 详细披露了关于“连胜冻结（Streak Freezes）”的关键数据：给用户 2 个冻结机会比 1 个更能挽留用户，但增加到 3 个并没有额外收益。他还分享了一个反直觉的策略：给予新用户更多灵活性（甚至开局赠送冻结卡）能显著提升早期留存。
在商业化与用户体验的博弈中，团队做出了一个大胆决定：废除付费购买“连胜修复”的功能，改为让用户通过做练习“赢回（Earn Back）”连胜。这一改动虽然牺牲了短期收入，却极大提升了留存。最后，Jackson 提出了“连胜的神圣性（Sanctity of the Streak）”这一概念——如果让连胜变得太容易获取，它将失去意义，这对公司来说将是“灭绝级事件”。
[原文] [Lenny]: I imagine one of the biggest wins was just giving people flexibility along the journey, like streak freezes and all these things, is that a big vein of opportunity discovery?
[译文] [Lenny]: 我想最大的胜利之一就是在过程中给予人们灵活性，比如连胜冻结（streak freezes）和所有这些东西，那是一个发现机会的巨大矿脉吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: It is. Actually, I'm going to show you one of the most thoughtful gifts that anybody has ever given to me, this is our Duolingo Serenity, or Streak Serenity Prayer, my co-lead, Antonia-
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的。实际上，我要给你看一件别人送给我的最贴心的礼物，这是我们的 Duolingo 宁静祷文，或者叫连胜宁静祷文（Streak Serenity Prayer），是我的联合负责人 Antonia 送的——
[原文] [Lenny]: It's like knitted, right?
[译文] [Lenny]: 它是针织的，对吧？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ... [inaudible 00:46:05] this for me. It's amazing. And so it says, "Luis, grant me the serenity to accept the flexibility I need, the courage to reach perfection when I can, and the wisdom to celebrate regardless."
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ……为我织的。这太棒了。上面写着：“Luis（注：CEO名字，戏仿上帝），请赐予我宁静去接受我所需的灵活性，赐予我勇气在可能时追求完美，并赐予我智慧无论结果如何都去庆祝。”
[原文] [Lenny]: Aw.
[译文] [Lenny]: 噢。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And that actually is kind of our strategy with the streaks.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这实际上就是我们处理连胜机制的策略。
[原文] [Lenny]: I love the show and tell by the way, that was great.
[译文] [Lenny]: 顺便说一句，我喜欢这个展示环节，太棒了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah. Well, I guess for podcast listeners, we'll have to get an image somewhere. This idea of flexibility versus perfection, and then regardless, celebration, is core to how we think about the streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的。我想对于播客听众来说，我们得在某个地方放张照片。这种灵活性与完美之间的对立，以及无论如何都要庆祝的理念，是我们思考连胜机制的核心。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Because I think for the streak for us, it's very much a bend not break. If you're going to miss a day, I'd rather you come back, having missed that day, to an intact streak, but if you don't have to miss a day, I'd much rather you don't, I'd much rather you come back and use the app every day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 因为我认为对于我们来说，连胜机制非常强调“弯而不折（bend not break）”。如果你要错过一天，我宁愿你在错过那天后回来看到连胜依然完好；但如果你不必错过，我更希望你不要错过，我更希望你每天都回来使用应用。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, that thing on flexibility though, that's almost certainly been the biggest, from a mechanic perspective, the biggest DAU driver. One of the earliest experiments we ran was going from you used to only be able to have one streak freeze and then we let you have either two or three. So, we tested two different arms. It was, again, another huge DAU win.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，关于灵活性这一点，从机制角度来看，几乎可以肯定它是最大的 DAU（日活跃用户）驱动力。我们最早进行的实验之一是，从以前你只能拥有 1 个连胜冻结，改为允许你拥有 2 个或 3 个。所以，我们测试了两个不同的实验组。再一次，这是一个巨大的 DAU 胜利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: This actually is funny, it was something that... And this is, again, a callback to that growth model post from Jorge. It actually was really bad for CURR because we were basically saying, hey, you can take a day off, and that's okay, but it was really good for, this is going to be like Alphabet Soup, [inaudible 00:47:31], a weekly active user return rate.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这其实很有趣，这是……这又要回溯到 Jorge 那篇关于增长模型的文章。实际上这对 CURR（当前用户留存率）非常不利，因为我们基本上是在说“嘿，你可以休息一天，没关系”，但这对于——这听起来要像字母汤（指缩写词大杂烩）了——周活跃用户返回率（Weekly Active User Return Rate）非常有利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, basically, users who had taken a day off, we were getting them to come back more at higher rates, and so it made up for our losses in CURR. But effectively, what this meant is that, why two streak freezes work better than one was, I don't know, sometimes people just need a little bit more flexibility than one day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，基本上，对于那些休息了一天的用户，我们让他们以更高的比率回归，这弥补了我们在 CURR 上的损失。但这实际上意味着，为什么 2 个连胜冻结比 1 个效果好，我不知道，也许有时人们只是需要比一天多一点的灵活性。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But again, the really interesting insight of this experiment was that three streak freezes was actually no better than two streak freezes. And there were two competing things here, and I think this is important if you're going to build a streak to figure out what your flexibility mechanic is.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但同样，这个实验真正有趣的洞察是，3 个连胜冻结实际上并不比 2 个好。这里有两个相互竞争的因素，我认为如果你要构建连胜机制，弄清楚你的灵活性机制是什么非常重要。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: We were getting more users to return after longer times away to an intact streak. But if you start taking three days off from any habit, it's just going to be less likely that you return even four days later.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们确实让更多离开更长时间的用户回到了一个完好的连胜状态。但是，如果你开始从任何习惯中连续休息三天，那么你在四天后回来的可能性就会降低。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, we had these competing things where more users might be returning to a streak, but a lot of users were also just not coming back, we were training them to take more time off. So, that flexibility, what's the right amount of... We've again, this is another area we've run hundreds of experiments on, what is the right amount of flexibility?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们面临着这种矛盾：虽然可能更多用户因为连胜还在而回归，但也有很多用户干脆就不回来了，我们实际上是在训练他们休息更多时间。所以，那种灵活性，多少才是合适的量……这也是我们运行了数百次实验的另一个领域，到底多少灵活性是合适的？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And we are constantly surprised here. I still don't have the answer for at every point in your streak journey how much flexibility you need. One thing that I can say with certainty though is, give more flexibility when a user is starting their streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们在这里不断感到惊讶。我仍然没有关于你在连胜旅程的每个阶段需要多少灵活性的确切答案。但我可以肯定地说一件事：当用户刚开始连胜时，给他们更多的灵活性。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Again, one of our biggest streak freeze experiment wins... I feel like I'm constantly saying this, one of our biggest wins, but they all were really, really big. One of our biggest streak freeze wins was when you start a new streak, we give you two streak freezes. And again, it's so funny to think back, it's like how are we not doing this to begin with?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 再一次，我们最大的连胜冻结实验胜利之一……我感觉我一直在说“这是我们最大的胜利之一”，但它们确实都非常非常大。我们最大的连胜冻结胜利之一是，当你开始一个新的连胜时，我们直接送你 2 个连胜冻结。回想起来真好笑，就像是我们怎么没有一开始就这么做呢？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But at the time, the streak freeze was an overly gamified mechanic, you had to buy them with gems, that's our in-app currency, because we wanted the whole idea of this to feel like it was really something you earned, that there was a little bit of pain to getting that streak freeze.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但在当时，连胜冻结是一个过度游戏化（overly gamified）的机制，你必须用宝石购买，那是我们的应用内货币，因为我们希望这整个概念让你感觉这是你真正挣来的，获得那个连胜冻结需要付出一点代价。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, we tested though, what if we just give users when they start off their streak two streak freezes, and holy smokes to that win. And it's sort of obvious now, in retrospect, but if you have a one or a two or a three-day streak, it's really easy just to let it die and restart, again, you need to get to seven days, what we've seen in the data, for it to really lock in.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我们测试了：如果我们在用户开始连胜时直接给他们 2 个连胜冻结会怎样？天哪，那真是一次巨大的胜利。回想起来这很显而易见，但如果你只有 1 天、2 天或 3 天的连胜，你很容易就让它断掉然后重来；再说一次，正如我们在数据中看到的，你需要达到 7 天才能真正锁定习惯。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, giving users more flexibility so that it's harder to lose their streak initially, and then conversely, and this is what we keep learning, eventually, once people get on long streaks, you don't want to give them as much flexibility.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，给用户更多的灵活性，让他们在起步阶段更难失去连胜；反过来说——这也是我们不断学到的——最终，一旦人们进入了长连胜，你就不应该给他们那么多灵活性了。
[原文] [Lenny]: This is fascinating. You can also buy a streak, right? With money. That's a feature, right?
[译文] [Lenny]: 这太迷人了。你也可以买连胜，对吧？用钱买。这是一个功能，对吧？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: You can buy a freeze, sorry, not a streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你可以买冻结，抱歉，不是买连胜。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah. So, you can buy a streak freeze, and the way it works is you can buy gems, and then you can use those gems to buy a streak... And this is something we wrestle with. We're actively working on an experiment, right now that's having a small hit to revenue, but it's a really nice win for retention, and I think it's actually worth thinking about from day one, as you're building a streak, do you see this more as a monetization feature, or do you see this more as a retention feature?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的。你可以买连胜冻结，运作方式是你可以买宝石，然后用这些宝石买连胜（冻结）……这是我们一直在纠结的事情。我们目前正积极进行一个实验，它会对收入造成一点小打击，但在留存方面是一个非常好的胜利。我认为这实际上值得你从第一天构建连胜机制时就思考：你是更多地把它看作一个变现功能，还是更多地看作一个留存功能？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And I think for us it started out much more organically, and so we have a lot of monetization hooks, that again, is the retention PM, I would love to get rid of. But again, it's sort of part of how the streak works right now.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 对我们来说，它的起步更加有机，所以我们有很多变现的钩子（hooks），作为留存产品经理，我真想把它们去掉。但这又是目前连胜运作方式的一部分。
[原文] [Lenny]: Yeah, no, I love that people wanting to buy streak freeze is like the ultimate sign of how much streaks matter.
[译文] [Lenny]: 是的，我觉得人们想要购买连胜冻结，这就是连胜有多重要的终极标志。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, streak freeze is the other big one that we've recently demonetized, or introduced a free option for, is getting back a lost streak. So, used to lose a streak, we had a feature, in the day, back in the day, called Streak Repair, we'd give you your streak back, you had to pay gems.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，连胜冻结之外，我们最近“去货币化（demonetized）”或引入免费选项的另一个大功能是找回丢失的连胜。以前你失去连胜时，我们有个功能叫“连胜修复（Streak Repair）”，我们会把连胜还给你，但你必须支付宝石。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But what we found that worked way better was a feature called Earn Back, and this is basically where you would have to do a certain number of lessons, as long as you came back within a window soon after losing your streak, do a few lessons and we just give you your streak back. And that was such a retention winner.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但我们发现效果好得多的一个功能叫“赢回（Earn Back）”。基本上只要你在失去连胜后不久的窗口期内回来，做一定数量的课程，做几节课，我们就直接把连胜还给你。这在留存方面是一个巨大的胜利。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And again, what we thought about was it feels like you've earned it so much more when you've done... You deserve to have your streak back, we haven't cheapen the streak because you've done something. And in this sense, this idea of cheapening the streak is something, like from a philosophical...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 再次强调，我们的想法是，当你做了（练习）之后，感觉这更是你应得的……你配拿回你的连胜，我们并没有贬低连胜的价值，因为你付出了行动。从某种意义上说，“贬低连胜价值（cheapening the streak）”这个概念，就像是从哲学层面……
[原文] [Lenny]: Philosophy of the streak.
[译文] [Lenny]: 连胜的哲学。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: From a philosophical level, we wrestle with all the time, of, cool, we're giving out more streak freezes, at what point do we cross the line and users start to realize their streak means nothing?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 从哲学层面来说，我们一直在纠结：酷，我们发了更多的连胜冻结，但在哪一点上我们会越界，导致用户开始意识到他们的连胜一文不值？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Now, everything that we've seen, users are totally cool with using streak freezes and still thinking about their streak is this meaningful thing, but my co-lead, Antonia, who made that awesome cross-stitch for me, she is the keeper for us of the sanctity of the streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 目前为止我们看到的一切表明，用户完全接受使用连胜冻结，并且仍然认为他们的连胜是有意义的。但我的联合负责人 Antonia——就是给我做那个超棒十字绣的人——她是我们“连胜神圣性（sanctity of the streak）”的守护者。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And a lot of times as we... And I think this is really important to have, as you're thinking about building your streak. You can almost always get engagement wins, up to a certain point, by just cheapening the streak, making it easier to extend, letting users have more flexibility, but you kind of got to hold the line at some point.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 很多时候当我们……我认为这在你构建连胜机制时非常重要：在一定程度上，你几乎总是可以通过贬低连胜价值——让它更容易延长，给用户更多灵活性——来获得互动数据的增长，但在某个点上，你必须坚守底线（hold the line）。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And it's not clear where that line is. And once you... You talk about one-way doors or two-way doors, there's a point where you go too far and it's a one-way door, and all of a sudden those users, those 9 million users on one-year streaks don't care about their streak anymore.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 目前还不清楚那条底线在哪里。而且一旦你……你谈到单向门或双向门（决策），有一个点，如果你走得太远，那就是一个单向门（one-way door），突然之间那些用户——那 900 万拥有一年连胜记录的用户——就不再在乎他们的连胜了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And that is, I don't know, again, retention PM perspective, that'd be an extinction level event for us. I don't want all of these users to stop caring about their streak. And so, to have somebody who is invested in the sanctity of this streak, and for us it's Antonia and Luis, he's very good about this, is really important, just so you make sure you don't go too far.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 那将是——我不知道，再次从留存产品经理的角度来看——那对我们来说将是一个灭绝级事件（extinction level event）。我不希望所有这些用户不再在乎他们的连胜。所以，拥有一个致力于维护连胜神圣性的人——对我们来说是 Antonia 和 Luis，他在这方面非常有原则——是非常重要的，只是为了确保你不会走得太远。
📝 本节摘要：
本章揭示了 Duolingo 在用户召回与奖励机制上的微观创新。Jackson 首先分享了关于通知推送的“反直觉”数据：相比让用户自定义提醒时间，系统根据用户前一天学习时间推迟 23.5 小时发送提醒，效果反而最好（揭示了“显示性行为”比“声称行为”更真实）。他还介绍了晚上 10 点的“连胜救星（Streak Saver）”通知，尽管看似打扰，却被用户视为一种保护。
在应用内体验方面，Jackson 强调了“完美连胜（Perfect Streak）”的设计——即使没有实质奖励，仅靠金色的视觉反馈就能激励用户追求完美。最后，他探讨了触觉反馈（Haptics）与动画的心理学作用：它们并非为了加速流程，而是为了制造“停顿”，让用户在手机震动与视觉盛宴中充分沉浸于成就感，从而加深对产品的依恋。
[原文] [Lenny]: That's an awesome insight. So, to protect... And push notifications I think are another example of this in general for companies, how much is too much? Because everyone is just like, let's just send another push, it's fine, just one more. And so, your solution to that is a person is like the keeper, and almost the gatekeeper, plus the founder, of how far is too far.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这是一个很棒的见解。所以，为了保护……我认为推送通知总体上对公司来说是这方面的另一个例子，多少才算太多？因为每个人都会觉得：发一条推送吧，没事的，再多发一条就好。所以，你们对此的解决方案是让一个人作为守护者，甚至可以说是守门人，再加上创始人，来判定哪里是过犹不及的界限。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I think push notifications are also easier because there's a lot of things you can do around, all right, we'll send a budget cap for how many notifications we'll send... But I think with a lot of things, at least for the streak, it's harder to create policies for in the same way, a lot of it has to be done based on feel, and so you just got to use your best judgment at times.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我认为推送通知处理起来相对容易些，因为你可以围绕它做很多事，比如，好吧，我们会为发送的通知数量设定一个预算上限……但我认为对于很多事情，至少对于连胜机制来说，很难用同样的方式制定政策，很多时候必须凭感觉（feel）来做，所以有时你只能运用你最好的判断力,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: There's actually a notification that we... So, we send two notifications related to your core streak each day, the first is a practice reminder, we send it, this is actually an interesting insight, 23 and a half hours after you practice the day before.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 实际上有一种通知我们……我们每天发送两条与你的核心连胜相关的通知，第一条是练习提醒，我们发送的时间——这实际上是一个有趣的洞察——是在你前一天练习时间的 23.5 小时之后。
[原文] [Lenny]: Whoa, that is a lot. 23 and a half. Okay, So, basically, if you practice at noon today, we'll send it to you at 11:30 AM tomorrow...
[译文] [Lenny]: 哇，那真是有意思。23.5 小时。好的，所以基本上，如果你今天中午练习，我们会在明天上午 11:30 发送给你……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And we actually moved, we used to let users set this practice reminder time, and our thinking was, cool, you're going to say 7:00 PM, that's when I really want to extend my streak each day, and then you know what? I say this to somebody with two kids, life gets in the way, life always gets in the way...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们实际上做了调整，我们过去允许用户自己设定这个练习提醒时间，我们的想法是，酷，你会说晚上 7 点，那是我真正想每天延长连胜的时间。然后你知道吗？我对那些有两个孩子的人说，生活总会来捣乱（life gets in the way），生活总是充满变数……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And what we realize is the best indicator of when you should practice was when did you practice the day before. We could almost certainly get more detailed, we have tried a bunch of ways to have much more complex logic, and what always wins is 23 and a half hours.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们意识到，关于你何时应该练习的最佳指标，就是你前一天是什么时候练习的。我们几乎肯定可以做得更细致，我们也尝试了很多种更复杂的逻辑，但最终胜出的总是 23.5 小时法则,。
[原文] [Lenny]: That's so interesting. Revealed behavior versus stated.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这太有趣了。显示性行为（Revealed behavior）与声称的行为（Stated behavior）的对比。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, exactly. ... the other thing that we'll do though is we'll send a, what we call a streak saver, and this is at 10:00 at night, if you have not extended your streak, we'll send you a message saying, hey, it's your last chance, this is it, if you don't extend your streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，没错。……我们要做的另一件事是发送一个我们称之为“连胜救星（streak saver）”的通知，这是在晚上 10 点，如果你还没有延长你的连胜，我们会给你发一条信息说：“嘿，这是你最后的机会了，就是现在，如果你不想断连的话。”
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And you would think that, that's kind of spammy, that's kind of annoying, to get a notification from an app at 10:00 PM, but what we found is because people care about their streak, their streak is this good thing that they attach positive emotions... that notification reminding them, hey, come back and... People see this by and large as a positive notification and not a negative notification.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你可能会认为这有点像垃圾信息（spammy），有点烦人，晚上 10 点收到应用的通知。但我们发现，因为人们在乎他们的连胜，连胜是他们寄托了积极情感的好东西……那条提醒他们“嘿，回来……”的通知，人们大体上将其视为积极的通知，而不是消极的通知。
[原文] [Lenny]: It has saved me many times, I totally know that message, and I love that it's a late night message from an app, very rarely do you actually, are happy about that...
[译文] [Lenny]: 它救了我很多次，我完全知道那条信息，而且我喜欢那是一条来自应用的深夜信息，你很少会真的对（深夜推送）感到高兴……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I talked about streak freezes... but I think if you're going to make flexibility a thing, it's probably also useful thinking about how do you celebrate perfection. And so, we have a feature that we have, it is the simplest thing in the world, it's called Perfect Streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我谈到了连胜冻结……但我认为如果你要让灵活性成为常态，那么思考如何庆祝完美可能也是有用的。所以，我们要有一个功能，它是世界上最简单的东西，叫做“完美连胜（Perfect Streak）”,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And it's just, if you don't use the streak freeze for a few days, we make your streak look gold, and we make your little progress bar on the calendar just look a little bit nicer. There's no reward for doing it, you don't get anything other than this nice little indication, and it is awesome.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 它只是，如果你几天没使用连胜冻结，我们就把你的连胜显示为金色，并让你日历上的小进度条看起来稍微漂亮一点。这么做没有实质奖励，除了这个漂亮的小指示标你什么也得不到，但它棒极了,。
[原文] [Lenny]: Right. But it also can feel that easy. I love this, I also love this point about just the power of the animation and user experience having impact, that's really interesting.
[译文] [Lenny]: 对。但它也能让人感觉那么轻松。我喜欢这个，我也喜欢关于动画的力量和用户体验产生影响的这一点，这真的很有趣。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: This is another thing where it's like when users care about the feature, using not only animation, haptics, sound effects... We actually don't have sound effects on the streak... but haptics are something we have done a lot of testing on-
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 这是另一回事，当用户在乎这个功能时，不仅要使用动画，还要使用触觉反馈（haptics）、音效……我们实际上在连胜上还没有音效……但触觉反馈是我们做了大量测试的东西——
[原文] [Lenny]: Like the phone vibrating in various ways.
[译文] [Lenny]: 就像手机以不同的方式震动。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, exactly, your phone, there being a really cool haptic pattern as you extend your streak, all of this stuff wins. ... The other thing it does is it causes you to pause on that screen, and I think there's this desire, as PMs think through, oh, how can I get users through this funnel as painlessly as possible?
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，没错，你的手机，当你延长连胜时会有一个非常酷的震动模式，所有这些东西都赢了（指测试数据好）。……它做的另一件事是它让你在那个屏幕上暂停（pause），我认为产品经理在思考时通常会有这种愿望：噢，我怎样才能让用户尽可能无痛地通过这个漏斗？,
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: There's a lot of times where I don't, I want you to stop. I want you to stop and land on the screen. ... If I can get you to enjoy the moment more, you're going to care more about your streak, and you're going to be coming back tomorrow.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 很多时候我不这么想，我想要你停下来。我想要你停下来并留在这个屏幕上。……如果我能让你更享受这一刻，你就会更在乎你的连胜，你明天就会回来,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, animations that are cool, and that cause you to really soak it in, haptics that feel good, all of that comes together to make you really focus on that moment...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，酷炫的且让你真正沉浸其中的动画，感觉良好的触觉反馈，所有这些结合在一起，让你真正专注于那个时刻……
📝 本节摘要：
在本章中，Jackson 分享了 Duolingo 团队保持高产出的三个核心支柱。
首先是组织架构：团队不是围绕“功能（如连胜）”组建的，而是围绕“指标（如 CURR）”组建的。这意味着只要能提升留存，任何团队（甚至变现团队）都可以在协调后对连胜功能进行改动。
其次是流程管理：为了支撑高频实验，团队极度依赖 Jira 自动化和详尽的路线图，确保工程与设计资源的无缝衔接。
最后是发布策略：Jackson 强调要抵制发布“大而全的 V1 版本（Big V1）”的诱惑。他主张剥离所有花哨的“铃铛和哨子”，只验证最核心的假设。这种“做减法”的思维不仅降低了开发成本，更让团队能在真实的反馈中快速迭代。
[原文] [Lenny]: Okay, sweet. I know that we can go down this track for hours and hours, there's endless learnings about all the things you all have done along the journey. I want to shift to talking about how your team operates. So, there's a lot of threads you touched on of just how a team can do this so well, shift 600 experiments, as you said, continue to find opportunity. What are some maybe lessons or advice you'd have for folks that are like, oh wow, I want to work more like this, from your team's experience, how does your team to operate that folks can learn from?
[译文] [Lenny]: 好的，太棒了。我知道我们要顺着这个话题聊上几个小时都没问题，你们这一路走来做过的事情里有无尽的经验教训。我想把话题转到你们团队是如何运作的。你提到过很多关于团队如何能做得这么好的线索，比如像你说的，运行了 600 个实验，并持续发现机会。对于那些想“哇，我也想这样工作”的人，你有什么基于你们团队经验的教训或建议可以分享吗？你们团队是如何运作的，有什么值得大家学习的地方？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, maybe just a little bit of context. Duolingo cares a lot about... So, most of our teams are metric-based teams. So, we do the most work with streak, but the metric, what we really care about at the end of the day is CURR, and DAUs, because we see that DAUs hit CURR.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 好的，也许先交代一点背景。Duolingo 非常看重……我们的大多数团队都是基于指标（metric-based）的团队。所以，虽然我们在连胜功能上做的工作最多，但归根结底，我们真正关心的指标是 CURR（当前用户留存率）和 DAU（日活跃用户），因为我们看到 DAU 会影响 CURR。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, when you can be really laser focused on, my goal each quarter is to make this metric go up, I think it's much easier to make sure that you're working on the highest ROI thing. I think when you think more about like, oh, I want to make this feature better, I think it's easier to get lost in what better means, and how you think about better. And so, I do think that having a really strong degree of focus as a team on what is the metric that I'm caring about, and how is that directing my efforts is-
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 因此，当你能真正像激光一样聚焦于“我每个季度的目标就是让这个指标上升”时，我认为这就更容易确保你在做投资回报率（ROI）最高的事情。如果你更多地考虑“噢，我想让这个功能变得更好”，我觉得你很容易迷失在“更好”意味着什么，以及你如何定义“更好”之中。所以，我确实认为，作为一个团队，高度聚焦于“我关心的指标是什么”以及“它是如何指引我的工作的”，这一点是——
[原文] [Lenny]: Versus feature-oriented. So, basically your teams are structured around a metric/a goal/outcome versus we own this feature, or this product.
[译文] [Lenny]: 也就是相对于“功能导向”而言。所以，基本上你们的团队是围绕指标/目标/结果来构建的，而不是“我们拥有这个功能”或“我们拥有这个产品”。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, retention owns streak, I guess, but that's only because we've seen streak drive CURR better than any feature. But we are not, we have this IAP hook with our streak freeze purchases, there are other teams that work on, that can and have worked on the streak, because it's not ours to say, no, no, no, we do all the iterations here, we just know that it drives our metric better.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我想留存团队确实“拥有”连胜功能，但这只是因为我们发现连胜比任何其他功能都能更好地驱动 CURR。但我们并不是独占它，比如我们有连胜冻结购买的 IAP（应用内购买）钩子，还有其他团队在连胜上工作，他们可以也确实已经在连胜上做过工作，因为我们不能说“不不不，所有的迭代都由我们来做”，我们只是知道它能更好地驱动我们的指标。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: In the same way that leaderboards, we have a team that focuses on how much time you spent, we want users to spend more time on Duolingo so they're learning more. Leaderboards is the best vector for doing it, so that team does a lot of leaderboards work, but every now and then I have an idea that I think will be highly retentive, and I will go in, and I'll pitch to them, and then we'll do some change to the leaderboard to make it more retentive.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 同样的道理也适用于排行榜（leaderboards），我们有一个团队专注于用户花费的时间，我们希望用户在 Duolingo 上花更多时间以便学到更多。排行榜是实现这一点的最佳载体，所以那个团队做了很多排行榜的工作，但偶尔我也会有一个我认为能极高提升留存的想法，我就会介入，向他们推销我的想法，然后我们会对排行榜做一些改动，让它更具留存性。
[原文] [Lenny]: Cool. ... But what you're describing is, even though a team's kind of... I imagine you own it from a [inaudible 01:07:29] perspective, and you're like are the shepherd of this part of the feature because it hits your goal, helps your goal most. But any other team can come in and be like, hey Jackson, we need to work on some streak stuff to help with learning, you're like, go for it. Just a tangent there. Do they work really closely with your team if they want to do some work in the code? How does that work logistically?
[译文] [Lenny]: 酷。……但你所描述的是，即使一个团队某种程度上……我想你是从某种角度拥有它，你就像是这个功能部分的牧羊人（shepherd），因为它触达你的目标，对你的目标帮助最大。但任何其他团队都可以进来说：“嘿 Jackson，我们需要在连胜上做点东西来帮助学习”，你会说：“去做吧。”这里插个题外话，如果他们想在代码层面做些工作，他们会和你的团队紧密合作吗？后勤上是怎么运作的？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah. If you are, again, this is where I say there's soft ownership, we're not against teams doing things to the streak, but if we're going to do something given we probably have multiple quarters worth of a roadmap around the streak... I say probably, we do. Multiple quarters of roadmap for what we can do to the streak, if other teams want to come and mess with it, okay, we got to just figure out how is that going to work with what our plans for the streak were...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的。再次强调，这就是我所说的软性所有权（soft ownership），我们不反对其他团队对连胜功能做改动，但鉴于我们可能有围绕连胜的好几个季度的路线图——我说“可能”，实际上我们确实有。如果我们有未来几个季度关于连胜要做什么的路线图，而其他团队想来动它，好的，我们就得搞清楚这如何与我们的连胜计划相协调……
[原文] [Lenny]: Cool. What else is interesting about how you all operate and how you all work to achieve this sort of success?
[译文] [Lenny]: 酷。关于你们如何运作以及如何取得这种成功，还有什么有趣的吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Again, my team lead runs, Antonia runs the most... A really process, if you're going to run this experiments, you have to be really process-oriented and really thoughtful about which experiments am I going to run when, how is that going to set up the next one, there's heavy Jira automation, I think sometimes the Atlassian suite makes my eyes bleed, but there's a lot of times where that degree of process helps the team unblock engineers and make them move really fast.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 再说一次，我的团队主管 Antonia 运作着极其……如果你要运行这种规模的实验，你必须非常流程导向（process-oriented），并且非常周密地考虑我要在什么时候运行哪个实验，这如何为下一个实验做铺垫。这里有大量的 Jira 自动化，我想有时 Atlassian 套件（软件）真的让我“眼花缭乱（make my eyes bleed）”，但很多时候，这种程度的流程确实帮助团队为工程师扫清了障碍，让他们能非常快地行动。
[原文] [Lenny]: Can you follow that thread actually? Just when you say that, what does that look like? What are some elements of that process to make this work efficiently?
[译文] [Lenny]: 你能顺着这个话题多说点吗？当你这么说的时候，那具体看起来是什么样的？有哪些流程要素能让这高效运转？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: All the way down to, really detailed roadmaps around, all right, we're running this experiment is based on the results of this experiment, or might hook into an element of this feature, how do we make sure that we're lining up implementation on this so that as soon as this thing runs and we're ready to go, we can start rolling out the next one. I hate features just sitting around and us not, again, continuing that thread.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 具体到非常详细的路线图，比如：好的，我们正在运行这个实验是基于那个实验的结果，或者可能挂钩到这个功能的某个元素，我们如何确保我们安排好了实施工作，以便一旦这个东西跑起来准备好了，我们就可以开始推出下一个。我讨厌功能就那样闲置着，而我们没有继续推进那条线索。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, it's not just thinking about what's our engineering bandwidth, but also what's the design bandwidth to make sure that we have the next iteration of this feature ready to go. We're planning months out... because when you lose cycles, not pushing on a feature, it's just sort of lost opportunity.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，不仅仅是要考虑我们的工程带宽是多少，还要考虑设计带宽，以确保我们有这个功能的下一个迭代版本准备就绪。我们会提前几个月做计划……因为当你浪费了周期，没有推动一个功能时，那就像是失去了机会。
[原文] [Lenny]: So, essentially, mapping dependencies across function, and you're saying in Jira you can do this.
[译文] [Lenny]: 所以，本质上是跨职能地映射依赖关系，你说在 Jira 里可以做到这一点。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: You can do a lot of it in Jira, there is a non-zero amount of Google Docs that we have... But Jira is our, it is where the motherload of process is.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 你可以在 Jira 里做很多，当然我们也用“非零数量”的 Google Docs（谷歌文档）……但 Jira 是我们的核心，是流程的“富矿”所在地。
[原文] [Lenny]: Great. Okay. What else?
[译文] [Lenny]: 好的。还有什么？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Another thing that I'll just say is, we really resist the urge to do the big V1. And I think this is, I shared the streak goal example, where, a lot of times when we're exploring something we will say, okay, well, that's cool, how do we strip away a bunch of stuff and figure out what our core hypothesis is? And then, just ship that thing first as a V1.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我要说的另一件事是，我们真的在抵制做“宏大 V1（Big V1）”的冲动。我想这就是我分享过的连胜目标的例子，很多时候我们在探索某些东西时会说：好的，那很酷，但我们如何剥离掉一大堆东西，找出我们的核心假设（core hypothesis）是什么？然后，先把那个东西作为 V1 版本发布出去。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Because it's easy, and I've found this time and time again, it's easy to add things, features that make them win, I've worked in retention engagement long enough, I can add, I know enough things to pull, and bells to add, and whistles to make something win, but there's a lot of times where it's like cool, [inaudible] because all the whistles you added, not because of what your core hypothesis was...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 因为这很容易——我一次又一次地发现这一点——添加东西很容易，添加那些能让它获胜的功能很容易。我在留存互动领域工作得够久了，我知道该拉什么杠杆，加什么“铃铛和哨子（bells and whistles，指花哨的附加功能）”来让某样东西获胜。但很多时候就像是，酷，它赢了是因为你加的所有那些花哨东西，而不是因为你的核心假设成立……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ... and a lot of times if you can just really simplify what the feature is, it's also much easier to ship, it's easier to design. You're not designing for a whole system, you're designing for something much simpler. And so, getting everybody to think that way, allows us to end up shipping faster, shipping simpler, designing faster, getting faster approval, getting insight, and then doing what I talked about with streak goal, being able to run iteration after iteration after iteration, add these things iteratively.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ……很多时候，如果你能真正简化这个功能是什么，它也就更容易发布，更容易设计。你不是在为一个完整的系统做设计，你是在为某种更简单的东西做设计。所以，让大家都这样思考，最终允许我们发布得更快、更简单，设计得更快，获得批准和洞察也更快，然后就能做我之前谈到的关于连胜目标那样的事——能够运行一个又一个的迭代，迭代式地添加这些东西。
📝 本节摘要：
本章中，Jackson 承认即便经过多年打磨，Duolingo 的连胜机制可能只完成了“30% 的优化”，这被戏称为“香蕉摊里总有钱”（意指永远有价值可挖）。
面对想要复制这一功能的企业，Jackson 给出了严厉的建议：连胜只是锦上添花，必须先解决产品的核心循环（Core Loop），否则只是在浪费时间。
他还引用了董事会成员 Bing Gordon 的金句：“用户之所以在乎连胜，是因为你们（公司）在乎。”这揭示了设计层级的重要性——如果你把连胜藏在角落里，用户自然不会当回事。最后，通过“报税软件”与“Peloton”的对比，他探讨了连胜机制的适用边界。
[原文] [Lenny]: If I were to try to design a company to operate, that we all operate, you essentially map all the levers that drive the business. ... You basically just start mining, I don't know if mining is the right metaphor, but just looking for things that move that specific metric. ... There's also this element of the Arrested Development quote, "There's always money in the banana stand," comes to mind, where it's just keep working on, see there's more, there's going to be more opportunity at this.
[译文] [Lenny]: 如果我要设计一家公司的运作方式，也就是我们要运作的方式，你本质上是在映射所有驱动业务的杠杆。……你基本上就是开始挖掘——我不知道挖掘是不是恰当的比喻——但就是寻找那些能撬动特定指标的东西。……这也让我想起了《发展受阻（Arrested Development）》里的那句名言：“香蕉摊里总有钱（There's always money in the banana stand）”。意思就是继续做下去，你会发现还有更多东西，这里还会有更多的机会,,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: When I joined Duolingo, the PM that I took over for, Anton, who used to lead the retention team, I remember saying, "Dude, the streak, it just counts up, you guys have been testing on it for years, how much more work can we do on the streak?"
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 当我加入 Duolingo 时，我接替了前任留存团队负责人 Anton 的工作，我记得当时我说：“哥们，连胜这东西，不就是计数嘛，你们都已经测试了好几年了，我们在连胜上还能做多少工作啊？”
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And he was like, Jackson, you child... He didn't say exactly this, but this is how I felt it. Like, Jackson, you child, we're not even 30% of the way optimized. And four years later, I say that with such conviction, we are so far away from... We've made a ton of strides, but we are still so far away, and every quarter where we ship a ton of wins and improvements to the streak, it just continues to prove to me that there is so much more to be done.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 他的反应就像是：“Jackson，你个孩子（you child）……”他没这么明说，但给我的感觉就是这样。就像是：“Jackson，你太幼稚了，我们甚至连 30% 的优化都没做到。”四年后的今天，我可以非常确信地说，我们离终点还很远……虽然我们已经取得了长足的进步，但依然相距甚远。每个季度我们都在连胜功能上发布大量的胜利和改进，这不断向我证明，还有太多事情可以做,。
[原文] [Lenny]: Are there any other, say, lasting lessons from this journey that if someone were to try to operate this way, build streaks into their product, anything you'd recommend?
[译文] [Lenny]: 在这段旅程中还有什么持久的经验教训吗？如果有人想尝试这种运作方式，把连胜机制加入他们的产品，你有什么推荐的吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yeah, I really do think it starts with... Streaks are an engagement hack. You can make your app more retentive, I'm almost positive, almost every app out there can make it more retentive. It is loss aversion... But if your app is not something that users want to use every day, or whatever cadence you want your app to be, to work on, it's going to be, you're only going to get so much from that streak, and honestly, it's probably going to distract you from what really should matter, which is making your app something that people want to use every day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，我真心认为首先要明白……连胜是一种互动黑客手段（engagement hack）。你可以让你的应用更具留存性，我几乎可以肯定，市面上几乎每个应用都可以做得更具留存性。这是损失厌恶心理在起作用……但如果你的应用本身不是用户想要每天使用的东西——或者你希望应用达到的某种使用节奏——那么你从连胜中得到的收益将非常有限。老实说，这可能会让你分心，忽略了真正重要的事情，那就是把你的应用做成人们想要每天使用的东西,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, if you start focusing on the streak but you haven't made that an enjoyable experience, you're just going to waste a lot of time, honestly. And so, I think making sure that you have your core loop of your app figured out, that it is giving value to users, it is something that they want to come back to every day, that really sets the stage for something to layer a streak on.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，如果你开始专注于连胜，但还没能让（核心产品）成为一种令人愉悦的体验，老实说，你只是在浪费大量时间。因此，我认为要确保你已经搞定了应用的核心循环（core loop），它能为用户提供价值，是用户想要每天回来的东西，这才是为叠加连胜机制奠定基础。
[原文] [Lenny]: That's a really good point. Just like a streak is not going to solve your problems if people don't actually care about the core value you're providing.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这一点非常好。就像如果人们实际上并不在乎你提供的核心价值，连胜机制也解决不了你的问题,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: No, and honestly, it'll probably cause more problems if what you end up focusing on is how do I make the streak highly engaging, but your app is... You're wasting time that could otherwise be better spent on solving more critical problems.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，老实说，这甚至可能引发更多问题，如果你最终专注于如何让连胜机制变得高度吸引人，但你的应用本身……你是在浪费本可以更好地用于解决更关键问题的时间。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, that's one learning, the other thing that I'll say is, we met with one of our board members, Bing, Bing Gordon, a few weeks, or a few months ago rather, and he had this comment where he was just like, "The reason why users care about your streak so much is because you care about your streaks much." You being Duolingo.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，这是一个教训。我要说的另一件事是，我们几周前——或者说是几个月前——见了一位董事会成员，Bing，Bing Gordon。他当时评论说：“用户之所以如此在乎你们的连胜，是因为你们如此在乎你们的连胜。”这里的“你们”指的是 Duolingo,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And we're like, what do you mean? Well, he's like, well, after every session you see a big streak screen, and it's animated cooler than almost any other screen in the app, and then sometimes you see some other screens, and there's all these other... You don't let a user forget it, you talk about them in messages.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我们当时想，什么意思？他说，嗯，在每次学习结束后，你会看到一个巨大的连胜屏幕，它的动画效果比应用里几乎任何其他屏幕都要酷，然后有时你会看到其他屏幕，还有所有这些……你们不让用户忘记它，你们在消息里谈论它。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, I think it's worth thinking about, look, if you're going to build a streak, and then you're going to [inaudible 01:17:06] it off into the corner of your app, where users aren't going to see it, they're probably not going to care about it as much...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我认为这值得深思，听着，如果你打算构建一个连胜功能，然后把它塞到应用的角落里，用户根本看不到，那他们大概率也不会那么在乎它……,。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ... there's a reason why we focus as much on the streak as we do, and that's because we want it to be top of mind for users. And that's not by accident then that users start to care about it. And so, I think just as you're thinking about building the streak, making sure that you're giving it the visibility it deserves... it's sort of an important hierarchy principle to think about as you design things.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: ……我们如此关注连胜是有原因的，那就是我们希望它占据用户的心智首位（top of mind）。用户开始在乎它并非偶然。所以，我认为当你考虑构建连胜时，要确保给予它应有的可见性（visibility）……这是你在设计时需要考虑的一个重要的层级原则（hierarchy principle）,。
[原文] [Lenny]: That's such a good point. You look for cues to the app of tell me what I should pay attention to, what's important? If you're just like fire, explosions, you made a streak, oh, maybe I should pay attention to this feature.
[译文] [Lenny]: 这个观点太棒了。你在应用中寻找线索，告诉我应该关注什么，什么才是重要的？如果你展示的是火焰、爆炸、“你达成了连胜”，噢，那我可能就该关注这个功能。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Maybe final thing is, look, we ran so many tests on our Duolingo streak to figure out what worked. We have a philosophy at Duolingo, of test it first. ... I really think that if you're going to try to introduce a streak, or you want to improve on the streak you have, don't get too caught up in the philosophy of everything, make sure your hypotheses feel like they're good, but my recommendation is just try things.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 也许最后一点是，看，我们在 Duolingo 的连胜上运行了这么多测试来找出什么是有效的。我们在 Duolingo 有一个哲学，就是“先测试（test it first）”。……我真心认为，如果你想引入连胜，或者想改进现有的连胜，不要太纠结于各种哲学理念，确保你的假设感觉不错，但我的建议是：尽管去试。
[原文] [Lenny]: Say someone's listening and they're like, should we do streak, is this worth doing? What's your take on just the chances that a streak feature would be helpful to another consumer?
[译文] [Lenny]: 假设有人在听，他们想：我们该做连胜吗？这值得做吗？你认为连胜功能对其他消费者应用有帮助的几率有多大？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I am well known for saying in the company that I think every team, every app could benefit from a streak. Now, how you implement it is very different... If they're going to come use, I don't know, tax software... Okay, you know what? Now that I say this, tax software would be a hard one...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我在公司里出了名地认为每个团队、每个应用都能从连胜中获益。当然，你的实现方式会有很大不同……如果他们是来用，我不知道，报税软件……好吧，你知道吗？我现在说出口才发现，报税软件可能确实挺难做的……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: But the vast majority of companies I think have a good idea of like, all right, here is my ideal use case, I want users to come here three times a month, that would be ideal. ... You can build a streak to work. Peloton has weekly streaks because the idea of doing a Peloton workout every single day was hard for this user during COVID.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 但我认为绝大多数公司都很清楚，比如：好吧，这是我的理想用例，我希望用户一个月来三次，那是理想的。……你可以构建一个适用的连胜机制。Peloton 有“周连胜（weekly streaks）”，因为对于疫情期间的用户来说，每天都做 Peloton 锻炼是很难的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And so, I think figure out what your usage pattern is, as a user, and then build your streak around it. But as long as you're not a really, again, the tax example is probably a good counterfactual, but as long as you have some degree of frequency in your use, I think almost anything can have a streak.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 所以，我认为要搞清楚你的用户使用模式是什么，然后围绕它构建你的连胜。只要你不是真的像——再次强调，那个报税的例子可能是一个很好的反例——但只要你的使用有一定程度的频率，我认为几乎任何东西都可以有连胜机制。
📝 本节摘要：
在最后的快速问答环节中，Jackson 推荐了两本风格迥异的书：《中西部对话指南》（帮助理解那些“话里有话”的美国中西部人）和《Fate is the Hunter》（关于早期航空业的惊险回忆录）。
他还分享了自己最近沉迷的影视作品——不仅有陪孩子看的《Bluey》，还有让他能实战演练法语的《艾米丽在巴黎》。
最令人意外的是他推荐的“年度产品”：一把来自 Home Depot 的可调节梯子，完美解决了他在斜坡上修房子的痛点。
谈及团队文化，他描述了留存团队在远程办公时发明的“同步拍手+大喊 Yee-haw”的滑稽传统。最后，他发出了招聘邀请，欢迎对连胜机制有同样热情的书呆子们加入 Duolingo。
[原文] [Lenny]: With that, we've reached our very exciting lightning round. Are you ready?
[译文] [Lenny]: 至此，我们到了非常激动人心的闪电问答环节。准备好了吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I'm ready.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 准备好了。
[原文] [Lenny]: First question, what are two or three books you've recommended most to other people?
[译文] [Lenny]: 第一个问题，你向别人推荐最多的两三本书是什么？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: All right, I'll start with A Guide to Midwest Conversation. So, I'm based in Kansas City, I'm a proud Midwesterner, and us Midwesterners talk in a certain way. ... it is a very funny primer into what Midwesterners actually mean when they say what they say. So, highly recommend reading that.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 好的，我先说一本《中西部对话指南（A Guide to Midwest Conversation）》。我住在堪萨斯城，是个自豪的中西部人，我们中西部人说话有种特定的方式。……这是一本非常有趣的入门书，解读了中西部人说话时到底是什么意思。所以，强烈推荐阅读。
[原文] [Lenny]: I like that you give that to people, just like, here's what I might be telling you, which you may not read.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我喜欢你把这书送给别人，就像在说：“这就是我可能在对你说的潜台词，虽然你可能没读出来。”
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: My wife is German, and I gave it to her so she could better understand.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我妻子是德国人，我把这书给她，好让她能更好地理解（我）。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Another book, this is a good one, Fate is the Hunter. This is a really cool book, it's a memoir of one of the early commercial airline pilots, and it is wild to hear the stories about what flying was back in the day.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 另一本书，这本很棒，叫《宿命猎手（Fate is the Hunter）》。这是一本非常酷的书，是一位早期商业航空公司飞行员的回忆录，听听当年的飞行故事真是太疯狂了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I'm a former management consultant, I flew every week for almost six years, and I never once had to worry about, am I going to make it to the other end of this flight alive? That was not the case back then...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我以前做过管理咨询顾问，差不多六年时间里每周都飞，但我从来不用担心“我能活着飞到终点吗？”当年可不是这样……
[原文] [Lenny]: What's a favorite recent movie or TV show you've really enjoyed?
[译文] [Lenny]: 最近你非常喜欢的电影或电视剧是什么？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: So, I have two kids, I watch a lot of Bluey, it's really good, I swear, it brings me no shortage of joy. But adult show... I just finished the latest season of Emily in Paris, man, wonderful.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我有两个孩子，所以我看了很多《布鲁伊（Bluey）》，它真的很棒，我发誓，它带给我无尽的快乐。至于成人节目……我刚看完最新一季的《艾米丽在巴黎（Emily in Paris）》，天哪，太精彩了。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I realize it's not the highest brow of television, but just beautiful people in beautiful cities, solving problems that are not earth-shattering, sometimes it is nice to just tune out.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我知道这不是那种格调最高的电视节目，但就是漂亮的人在漂亮的城市里，解决一些并不惊天动地的问题，有时候这种纯粹的放松（tune out）挺好的。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Also, I'm learning French on Duolingo, slight plug for the app, I can understand a lot of the French that is being spoken, and there is no better joy than having invested as much time as I have in French, and actually being able to use it.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 另外，我在 Duolingo 上学法语——顺便给应用打个小广告——我能听懂里面很多法语对话，付出了那么多时间学法语，然后实际上能用上它，没有比这更快乐的事了。
[原文] [Lenny]: Do you have a favorite product you recently discovered that you really like? Other than Duolingo.
[译文] [Lenny]: 你最近有没有发现什么你非常喜欢的各产品？除了 Duolingo。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Last week I went to Home Depot, and I bought a new ladder, and ladder innovations, you don't think of often, but you can make one of the legs go a little bit further than the other leg.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 上周我去了 Home Depot（家得宝），买了一把新梯子。梯子的创新你可能不常想到，但这把梯子可以让其中一条腿伸得比另一条长一点。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And as somebody like myself who has a house that is built on a slight slope, every time I go up on my ladder, I take my life in my hands, but with this ladder, I'm always even. I cleaned my gutters twice last week just because of how awesome this ladder has...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 像我这种房子建在轻微斜坡上的人，每次爬梯子都是在玩命，但有了这把梯子，我总能保持平衡。上周我清理了两次排水沟，就因为这把梯子太棒了……
[原文] [Lenny]: I appreciate you doing that, and it's the first ladder recommendation we've had on the podcast. ... Do you have a favorite life motto that you really find useful in work or in life they share with folks?
[译文] [Lenny]: 感谢你的推荐，这是我们在播客上收到的第一个梯子推荐。……你有没有一句在工作或生活中觉得非常有用的座右铭可以分享给大家？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: This probably will not be much of a surprise based on how I've talked about our willingness to test things, but you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take. I'm a big fan of just trying things, even if your possibility of success is not 100, because you learn a lot along the way.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 基于我之前谈到的我们对测试的意愿，这可能不会让人感到惊讶：你不出手，就100%没机会进球（You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take）。我是“尽管去试”的忠实粉丝，即使你的成功率不是 100%，因为你会在此过程中学到很多。
[原文] [Lenny]: Final question, do you have any fun traditions at Duolingo, amongst either the PM team or the company in general that might be delightful to share?
[译文] [Lenny]: 最后一个问题，在 Duolingo，无论是产品经理团队还是整个公司，有什么有趣的传统可以分享吗？
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: I will share the weird tradition that we do at every retention standup, and this started during the pandemic... we did this thing where whoever's the last person to go would count down 3, 2, 1, and then we'd all try to clap at the same time, which was kind of fun and dorky, but we fell in love with it, and four years later we're still doing it.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 我来分享一个我们在每次留存团队每日站会上都会做的怪异传统，这始于疫情期间……我们会这样做：最后发言的人倒数 3、2、1，然后我们所有人尝试在同一时间拍手，这有点好玩又有点傻气（dorky），但我们爱上了它，四年后我们还在做。
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Recently we've added, we all say yee-haw in unison afterwards, I can't tell you why. But trying to synchronize a clap via Zoom, and then all shouting yee-haw...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 最近我们又加了一项，拍完手后我们所有人齐声喊“Yee-haw（牛仔欢呼声）”，我也不知道为什么。但在 Zoom 上尝试同步拍手，然后一起大喊 Yee-haw……
[原文] [Lenny]: I love these little things, they sound so minor, but they're such important elements of team culture and tradition, and so important for PMs to find ways to just have fun and do something ridiculous.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我喜欢这些小事，听起来微不足道，但它们是团队文化和传统的重要元素，对于产品经理来说，找到乐子并做点荒唐事非常重要。
[原文] [Lenny]: Jackson, this is incredible... Where can folks find you online if they want to reach out, learn more, learn more about Duolingo? I know you're hiring product managers...
[译文] [Lenny]: Jackson，这太棒了……如果大家想联系你，了解更多，了解关于 Duolingo 的更多信息，可以在哪里找到你？我知道你们正在招聘产品经理……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn, that is where most of my online social media is, so Jackson Shuttleworth, and then how people can be useful to me, yes, as you said, we are hiring. We're actually hiring for my team. Are you interested in thinking about streaks as much as we do? We might be the right home for you...
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 是的，可以在 LinkedIn 上找到我，那是我主要的社交媒体阵地，搜 Jackson Shuttleworth。至于大家怎么能帮到我，是的，如你所说，我们正在招聘。实际上就是为我的团队招聘。如果你有兴趣像我们一样深入思考连胜机制，我们可能就是你合适的归宿……
[原文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: And then, I'm always interested about how other companies have implemented streaks and what they've learned... I used to catalog basically every streak I found out there... So, if you have interesting streak insights to send my way, I would love to hear them.
[译文] [Jackson Shuttleworth]: 另外，我总是对其他公司如何实施连胜机制以及他们学到了什么感兴趣……我以前基本上会把我在外面发现的每一个连胜功能都记录下来……所以，如果你有关于连胜的有趣见解发给我，我很乐意听听。
[原文] [Lenny]: I love that, a collection of all the best ways of doing streaks. ... And with that, Jackson, thanks so much for being here.
[译文] [Lenny]: 我喜欢这个，关于做连胜机制的所有最佳方法的合集。……好了，Jackson，非常感谢你的到来。