章节 1：瑞典高中辍学生到OpenAI科学家：那个改变命运的决定

📝 本节摘要：

本章作为访谈的开篇，通过蒙太奇式的剪辑展示了嘉宾 Gabriel Peterson 的核心观点与背景。Gabriel 是一位来自瑞典偏远地区的高中辍学生，如今却是 OpenAI（Sora团队）的研究科学家。

对话正式开始后，主持人 Sigil Wen 询问了 Gabriel 充满传奇色彩的职业路径。Gabriel 回忆了他早年对 AI 的迷茫，以及那个决定性的时刻：他的表哥打来一通电话，邀请他加入一个电商推荐系统的创业项目。这通电话促使他毅然放弃高中学业，连夜坐大巴士前往斯德哥尔摩，从此再未回头。

[原文] [Gabriel]: i can barely take universities seriously that don't teach LGBT as a part of their curriculum

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我几乎无法严肃看待那些不把 ChatGPT（原文误听为LGBT）纳入课程体系的大学。

[原文] [Sigil (Voiceover)]: gabriel Peterson a high school dropout from Sweden who now works as an AI research scientist at OpenAI the creators of Chad

[译文] [Sigil (旁白)]: Gabriel Peterson，一位来自瑞典的高中辍学生，现在是 ChatGPT 的创造者——OpenAI 的人工智能研究科学家。

[原文] [Gabriel]: i always thought I was too dumb i met a programmer once and I was so starruck i was sleeping on couch pillows that I found in like the common room

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我以前总觉得自己太笨了。有一次我见到一位程序员，我当时简直崇拜得五体投地。我曾经睡在公共休息室里捡来的沙发靠垫上。

[原文] [Gabriel]: companies just want to make money you show them how to make money that you can code and they'll hire you i currently work at Sora where we're building uh

[译文] [Gabriel]: 公司其实只想赚钱。你只要向他们证明你会写代码、能帮他们赚钱，他们就会雇佣你。我目前在 Sora 团队工作，我们正在构建……呃……

[原文] [Sigil]: what advice would you give to someone who doesn't know what they want to do

[译文] [Sigil]: 对于那些不知道自己想做什么的人，你会给出什么建议？

[原文] [Gabriel]: the way I think people learn the fastest is

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我认为人们学习速度最快的方式是……

[原文] [Sigil]: welcome to extraordinary the origin stories behind extraordinary people i'm Cel Wen the founder of extraordinary.com and I'm here with Gabriel Peterson a high school dropout from Sweden who works as an AI research scientist at OpenAI the creators behind chat GBT

[译文] [Sigil]: 欢迎来到《非凡人生》，这里讲述非凡人物背后的起源故事。我是 Extraordinary.com 的创始人 Sigil Wen。今天和我在一起的是 Gabriel Peterson，一位来自瑞典的高中辍学生，现任职于打造了 ChatGPT 的 OpenAI，担任 AI 研究科学家。

[原文] [Sigil]: to be a research scientist typically you need a PhD but Gabriel has been able to teach himself math ematics and machine learning using chatbt and now works at the world's top AI company

[译文] [Sigil]: 通常要成为研究科学家，你需要一个博士学位，但 Gabriel 却利用 ChatGPT 自学了数学和机器学习，现在就职于全球顶尖的 AI 公司。

[原文] [Sigil]: gabriel was born in the middle of nowhere in Sweden and now is in San Francisco California after getting his 01 extraordinary ability visa gabriel welcome to Extraordinary

[译文] [Sigil]: Gabriel 出生在瑞典的一个鸟不拉屎的地方，而在获得 O-1 杰出人才签证后，他现在身处加利福尼亚州的旧金山。Gabriel，欢迎来到《非凡人生》。

[原文] [Gabriel]: thank you so much very happy to be here

[译文] [Gabriel]: 非常感谢，很高兴能来到这里。

[原文] [Sigil]: so Gabriel your story is super fascinating to me i have a tweet over here it says "Five years ago I dropped out of high school in Sweden to join a startup with close to zero experience as an engineer today I'm joining OpenAI as a research scientist to build AGI with Sora." How did you get here from that

[译文] [Sigil]: Gabriel，你的故事对我来说太迷人了。我这里有一条推文，上面写着：“五年前，我在几乎没有任何工程师经验的情况下从瑞典高中辍学，加入了一家创业公司；今天，我作为研究科学家加入 OpenAI，通过 Sora 项目构建通用人工智能（AGI）。” 你是如何从那个起点走到今天的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah it's a long story i've always been thinking about AI ever since I started reading books like Super Intelligence and Life 3.0 oh Max Tag Mark yeah Max dude I love that and both of them happened to be Swedish people as well and I was okay there's there's something here

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是啊，这说来话长。自从我开始读像《超级智能》（Super Intelligence）和《生命3.0》（Life 3.0）——噢，Max Tegmark（原文误听为Max Tag Mark）写的，是的，Max，哥们儿我爱死那书了——这类书之后，我就一直在思考 AI。而且这两位作者碰巧都是瑞典人，当时我就觉得，好吧，这领域肯定有点东西。

[原文] [Gabriel]: but I always thought I was too dumb i think I was looking into a bit to AI like I didn't really know programming and I was like probably there's like a bunch of really smart people out there that I can never compete with and yeah I just ended up working as an engineer for a couple years

[译文] [Gabriel]: 但我以前总觉得自己太笨了。我当时虽然对 AI 有点关注，但我其实并不怎么懂编程。我就想，外面肯定有一大堆绝顶聪明的人，我永远也竞争不过他们。所以，是的，我最后只是做了一名普通的工程师做了几年。

[原文] [Sigil]: so you dropped out of high school how did that happen how did you have the conviction to leave high school when everyone around you from your home country your hometown was there

[译文] [Sigil]: 那么，你是怎么从高中辍学的？当时你周围的人，你祖国和家乡的人都在上学，你是怎么有这种信念离开高中的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: i didn't really make the decision it just more like happened i think yeah my my cousin called me one day and said hello i just talked to this person uh he's really really smart he has this product idea to make like part recommendation system with AI and we should start selling this today

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我其实没怎么刻意做这个决定，它更像是自然而然发生的。是的，有一天我表哥打电话给我说：“喂，我刚跟一个人聊过，呃，他真的超级聪明。他有个产品点子，就是用 AI 做一个类似商品推荐系统的东西，我们今天就应该开始卖这个。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: he's currently in Singapore like doing research and yeah we're going to start selling like we're starting like yeah come to Stockholm as fast as possible

[译文] [Gabriel]: “他现在人在新加坡做研究。对，我们要开始卖了，我们要开始了。是的，你赶紧用最快速度来斯德哥尔摩。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and I was like dude I have this big party tonight i I'll come tomorrow he's like no so I just went like took the next bus to Stockholm and I just never returned

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我当时说：“兄弟，我今晚有个大派对要参加，我明天再来吧。” 他说：“不行。” 所以我就那样走了，坐上了下一班去斯德哥尔摩的巴士，从此再也没有回去过。

这是为您整理的访谈第二章。这一章节主要回顾了 Gabriel 在初创公司早期的“野路子”推销经历，以及他为了坚持创业而忍受的极端生活条件。

章节 2：推销员、睡沙发与“扭曲的现实”

📝 本节摘要：

在这一章中，Gabriel 详细讲述了他在斯德哥尔摩初创公司的早期经历。作为一个不懂技术的18岁少年，他采用了极其原始却有效的销售手段——打印 A3 纸直接敲门拜访客户，甚至现场修改客户网页代码来演示产品效果。

同时，他披露了当时艰难的生活状况：为了留在斯德哥尔摩，他在表哥的学生宿舍公共休息室里，睡在拼凑的沙发垫上长达一年。支撑他度过这段日子的，是他对自己终将成为亿万富翁的“百分之百确信”以及一种对他有利的“现实扭曲力场”。

[原文] [Sigil]: so you you dropped out of high school uh you went to this startup what happened

[译文] [Sigil]: 所以你从高中辍学了，去了这家创业公司，后来发生了什么？

[原文] [Gabriel]: we had this idea which was building a product recommendation system for e-commerce stores and at first like none of us knew anything about startup at all we were completely like okay what do we do how do we sell

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我们的想法是为电商商店建立一个产品推荐系统。起初，我们谁都不懂什么是创业，我们完全是这种状态：“好吧，我们要怎么做？我们要怎么卖？”

[原文] [Gabriel]: so the first way I started selling was like calling people up like I started with sending cold emails didn't work very well i started calling people up kind of you know people were sometimes interested but you know I was this random 18 year old i had no idea what I was doing i was non technical

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我最早尝试的销售方式是打电话。我一开始发冷邮件（陌生邮件），效果不太好；然后我开始给人打电话，你知道，人们有时会感兴趣，但我当时就是个莫名其妙的18岁小孩，我根本不知道自己在做什么，而且我当时还不懂技术。

[原文] [Gabriel]: the way we used to do selling I used to knock on company doors and I'd bring this like a is it A3 like the big papers and I'd have already since before like scrape their entire uh website train new product recommendation systems which is like you have a product and then you have the recommendations under like what products do you show to increase sales

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我们后来的销售方式是，我直接去敲公司的门。我会带上那种——是叫 A3 纸吗？就是那种大纸——我预先已经爬取了他们整个网站的数据，训练了新的产品推荐系统。也就是当你有了一个产品，下面会有推荐栏，显示“展示什么产品能增加销量”。

[原文] [Gabriel]: so I print their their old product recommendations to the left and our new product recommendations to the right and I made like a hundred of these wow i don't know have them in like a big folder and then I went looking at the the doors hey can I talk to the e-commerce manager CEO,

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我把他们旧的产品推荐打印在左边，把我们要提供的新推荐打印在右边。我大概做了几百份这样的东西——哇，我都不知道——就把它们装在一个大文件夹里。然后我就去敲门：“嘿，我能跟电商经理或者 CEO 聊聊吗？”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then just show them like hey this is your old product recommendations this is your new product recommendations and then they were always like impressed they're like oh shit did you do all of this how did you do this this is very cool

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后我就展示给他们看：“嘿，这是你们旧的推荐，这是新的推荐。” 他们通常都会印象深刻，甚至会说：“噢见鬼，这都是你做的？你怎么做到的？这太酷了。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: but then you know immediately they're like okay but how do I go from here like there's so many unknowns do not worry i always brought a script I could paste into their console on their website which flipped their product recommendations with our product recommendations and I was like yeah we are ready today we can just go live that's crazy

[译文] [Gabriel]: 但紧接着他们就会问：“好吧，但我接下来该怎么做？这中间有太多未知数了。” 我会说：“别担心。” 我总是随身带着一段脚本，可以直接粘贴到他们网站的控制台里，把他们的产品推荐替换成我们的。然后我说：“看，我们今天就准备好了，随时可以上线。” [Sigil]: 这太疯狂了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then they're always like "Okay but how do we know that we'll make money?" And I'm like "Do not worry i have an AB test set up already uh in this script it will track um like the revenue from people using your per recommendations and our per recommendations." So I could just like first meeting just close them everything ready from the start,

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后他们总会问：“好吧，但我们怎么知道这能赚到钱呢？” 我就说：“别担心，我已经在这段脚本里设置好了 A/B 测试，它会追踪用户使用你们的推荐和我们的推荐所产生的收入。” 所以我基本能在第一次见面时就搞定他们，一切从一开始就准备就绪。

[原文] [Gabriel]: we did all the implementations to it which you know would backfire hugely later because we didn't you know we're just thinking let's just scale or let's not think about like being easy to scale up let's just like just make sure we get customers right with like a bunch of other 17 18 year olds who dropped out of high school yeah yeah so it was older he was a researcher he was 16 or 17 at that point and then my cousin was like

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我们做了所有的执行工作，但这在后来造成了巨大的反噬。因为我们当时只想著扩张，根本没考虑这种扩张是否容易维护，只想著“先搞定客户再说”。这就像是一群17、18岁的高中辍学生在搞事情。是的，我表哥稍微大一点，他是研究员，另一个人当时大概16或17岁。

[原文] [Sigil]: And you guys were all in person in like Stockholm Sweden yeah so I was living in my cousin's dorm room but we were in college yes so we were No we don't have dorm rooms it's It's more like it's kind of dorm rooms but in like normal apartments in Sweden okay I got it and they're super tiny yep and you know you can only live there if you go to the university but you know we had to submit things like "Oh yeah we He's still doing university right?"

[译文] [Sigil]: 你们当时都在瑞典斯德哥尔摩线下办公吗？

[Gabriel]: 是的，我当时住在我表哥的学生宿舍里。不过瑞典没有那种传统的宿舍楼，它更像是普通公寓里的学生房。

[Sigil]: 好的，我明白了，那种超级小的房间？

[Gabriel]: 对，而且你知道，只有上大学的人才能住那里。但我们必须提交一些材料假装说：“噢是的，他还甚至在念大学，对吧？”

[原文] [Gabriel]: And I I was sleeping on couch pillows that I found in like the common room for one year nice it was a disgusting room but it worked well and we're sitting in this like co-working space,

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我当时睡在公共休息室里捡来的沙发靠垫上，那样睡了一年。

[Sigil]: 厉害。

[Gabriel]: 那房间挺恶心的，但还能凑合。我们就在那种联合办公空间里工作。

[原文] [Sigil]: what made you keep going like most people kind of quit but you and they would probably go back to school but you just you never went back like why did you keep going why did you keep like living in a shared dorm room on these like community couches

[译文] [Sigil]: 是什么支撑你坚持下来的？大多数人可能早就退出了，或者回学校了，但你从来没有回去。你为什么能坚持住在那种共享宿舍里、睡在公共沙发上？

[原文] [Gabriel]: i think I've always had a very distorted view of reality like I was 100% sure that this would make me a billionaire 100% there was like no doubt in the world and I was like super serious and like acting just like I believed like okay this is going to be the next big thing like nothing else mattered

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我觉得我一直对现实有一种非常扭曲的看法。我当时 100% 确信这会让我成为亿万富翁。100% 确信，毫无疑问。我超级认真，表现得就像我坚信这一点一样——好吧，这绝对是下一个大事件，其他任何事情都不重要。

[原文] [Gabriel]: i was like I'm just going to you know I was working like all night all nighter after all nighter you know I was traveling around Stockholm trying to do sales we're doing like all these like crazy ass things to try to get customers

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我当时就是这种状态。我彻夜工作，一个通宵接着一个通宵。我在斯德哥尔摩到处跑业务，为了拉客户我们做了各种疯狂的事情。

这是为您整理的访谈第三章。本章的核心在于探讨“被动学习”与“主动生存”的区别。Gabriel 坦诚自己并非天才，早期的自学尝试屡屡受挫，直到被创业公司的生存压力逼到了墙角，才真正掌握了编程技能。

章节 3：压力是最好的老师：从“太笨学不会”到实战成才

📝 本节摘要：

在这一章，Sigil 询问 Gabriel 如何在没有任何技术背景的情况下学会编程。Gabriel 回顾了自己早年失败的尝试：13岁时表哥教过他 Java，后来试过 Udemy 的 Python 课，甚至尝试过吴恩达（Andrew Ng）的机器学习课程，但当时他觉得自己“太笨了”，根本学不会。

他指出，真正的转折点在于创业期间的“被迫营业”。为了生存，他必须解决具体的问题（如网页抓取、系统集成、A/B测试）。他提出一个核心观点：真实的工作压力和具体的问题是最高效的学习催化剂，远比没有后果的学校教育更简单直接。

[原文] [Sigil]: so you originally dropped out without knowing how to code how did you go about learning that

[译文] [Sigil]: 所以你当初辍学时根本不会写代码，那你后来是怎么学会的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: mostly because I was forced to when we had to do the integrations with Yeah like how did you how did you learn i guess you had some friends around you who knew you had to code better yeah back then

[译文] [Gabriel]: 主要是因为我被逼无奈。当我们必须做集成的时候……是的，当时……（回忆起当时的情景）

[原文] [Gabriel]: so the the first way I learned how to code was my cousin when I was very young like at this point I was like 13 or something but he showed me Java and I made this super simple like Pokemon clone like turnbased you could like take damage such a bad application

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我最早接触代码是通过我表哥，那时我还很小，大概13岁左右。他教了我 Java，我做了一个超级简单的类似《宝可梦》的回合制克隆游戏，你可以承受伤害之类的——那个程序写得烂透了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then it's some time went by and then I made like a Udemy Python course i learned super simple Python i made this like really ass game where like you had little pods coming and you were like a duck trying to avoid them um it's really dumb

[译文] [Gabriel]: 后来过了一段时间，我上了一个 Udemy 的 Python 课程，学了超级简单的 Python。我做了一个真的很烂的游戏，里面有小豆荚飞过来，你是一只鸭子要躲避它们。呃，真的很蠢。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and I also did I tried to get into machine learning i did all these like you know the classic like machine learning course by Andrew and G yeah i just thought like yeah I'm probably too dumb for this i just can't do this stuff

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我也试过入门机器学习，我学了那些经典的课程，比如 Andrew Ng（原文误听为Andrew and G）的机器学习课。但我当时就觉得，好吧，我可能太笨了，我干不了这个。

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah when I really started getting into coding was at the pit when we you know we had to build things and we have to make product recommendation systems scraping integrations uh set up EB testing and all these things

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，我真正开始通过写代码入门是在那段“深坑期”（指创业初期的艰苦阶段），当时我们必须构建产品，必须做产品推荐系统、爬虫集成、设置 A/B 测试以及所有这些事情。

[原文] [Sigil]: yeah but how do you learn that if you don't go to school

[译文] [Sigil]: 是的，但如果你不去上学，你怎么学会这些呢？

[原文] [Gabriel]: the good thing with just working is that you always have a real problem which makes everything so simple like everyone always says like if you don't go to school how can you learn and like well it's so much more easy like then you have a real problem

[译文] [Gabriel]: 直接工作的好处在于，你总是面临一个真实的问题，这让一切变得非常简单。大家总说“如果你不去上学，你怎么学习？”，但其实在工作中学习简单多了，因为你有一个真实的问题要解决。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and you know you can map out okay I want to integrate my product recommendation system to this e-commerce store to do that I need to figure out how to select the the elements on the web page I need to insert them correctly I need to learn how to do all these things

[译文] [Gabriel]: 你可以规划路径：好吧，我想把我的产品推荐系统集成到这家电商商店。要做到这一点，我需要弄清楚如何选择网页上的元素，我需要正确地插入它们，我需要学习如何做所有这些事情。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then you can take it step by step you go to stack overflow and you know you can ask your friends if you're stuck and yeah I think that's like a simpler way to learning and especially when you have all this pressure on you right if you have a real job you have pressure

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后你可以一步步来。你去 Stack Overflow 查，卡住的时候可以问朋友。我觉得这是一种更简单的学习方式，尤其是当你背负着所有这些压力的时候。如果你有一份真正的工作，你就会有压力。

[原文] [Gabriel]: And that's everything like I I could never learn anything without pressure there's just no way like if someone were like "Oh yeah learn this thing but you have infinite time and you'll also not make money from it."

[译文] [Gabriel]: 这就是关键。如果没有任何压力，我绝对学不进任何东西，根本不可能。就像如果有人说：“噢，学这个东西吧，你有无限的时间，而且你也赚不到钱。”（那我就学不会）。

这是为您整理的访谈第四章。本章中，Gabriel 针对和他一样的“边缘人物”（高中辍学生、来自偏远地区）提出了核心建议。他提出了“深坑”（The Pit）的概念——一种没有退路、必须快速学习的生存状态。同时，他首次深入探讨了 AI 工具（在原文中多次被误听为 "ship" 或 "Shachi"）如何彻底改变了人才竞争的规则：现在，知识不再是壁垒，“高能动性”（High Agency）和提问能力才是关键。

章节 4：深坑（The Pit）与高能动性：知识不再是壁垒

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，Sigil 询问 Gabriel 对其他高中辍学生有何建议。Gabriel 坦言自己非常幸运能进入“深坑”（The Pit）——那是一个让他别无选择、只能通过解决实际问题来生存的境地。

他指出，对于来自偏远地区、缺乏工程师文化背景的人来说，创业似乎遥不可及。但现在的规则变了：只要你具备“高能动性”（High Agency），利用 ChatGPT（原文误听为 Ship/Shachi）弥补知识缺口，你就能在没有任何先修知识的情况下，向招聘者证明你的价值。他强调了一个时代的转折点：“知识不再是问题了”。

[原文] [Sigil]: If you were to give advice to another high school dropout um what would it be so that they would learn more

[译文] [Sigil]: 如果让你给其他高中辍学生一些建议，为了让他们学到更多东西，你会说什么？

[原文] [Gabriel]: i think I was extremely lucky i mean I was living in this town called Vagid in the middle of nowhere in Sweden i knew no engineers i met a programmer once in in in early high school and I was so starruck i was like "Do you code do you like make web pages that's awesome"

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我觉得我极其幸运。我住在瑞典一个叫韦克舍（Växjö，原文误听为Vagid）的偏远小镇，我不认识任何工程师。我在高中早期见过一次程序员，当时我简直是追星心态，我说：“你会写代码？你会做网页？太了不起了！”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and when you don't have this like culture like why is SF such a capital of of startups well because everyone's only talking about startups and it's like so clear how to do one but if you're like in the middle of nowhere and you don't you're not like surrounded by people this is like all they talk about you'll think all these things are impossible uh like doing all these things for me I was like damn this seems so far away

[译文] [Gabriel]: 当你没有这种文化氛围时——比如旧金山之所以是创业之都，是因为大家都在谈论创业，如何创业的路径非常清晰。但如果你身处偏远地区，周围没有人谈论这些，你会觉得所有这些事都是不可能的。对我来说，做这些事当时感觉就像：“该死，这看起来太遥不可及了。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and I was very lucky to to have the pit the pit was the first thing where I was like oh this is a real thing i mean I had no options and I probably it would be very hard to have options because I didn't know what I was looking for they just came up and it happened to be an extremely good learning for me

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我非常幸运能进入“深坑”（The Pit）。“深坑”是第一件让我觉得“噢，这是来真的”的事情。我是说，我当时没有任何选择，而且我也很难主动去寻找选择，因为我根本不知道自己在找什么。机会就这样出现了，而且它恰好成了我极佳的学习经历。

[原文] [Gabriel]: for other people who want to do the same thing like getting into the market as fast as possible solving real problems having accountability i mean now with help of ship you don't even need to know you you don't even need to have much knowledge about the thing you're doing

[译文] [Gabriel]: 对于其他想做同样事情的人，我的建议是尽可能快地进入市场，去解决真正的问题，并承担责任。我是说，现在有了 ChatGPT（原文误听为ship）的帮助，你甚至不需要懂，你甚至不需要对你正在做的事情有多少知识储备。

[原文] [Gabriel]: if you can just prove to the person that yeah I'm good at asking ship what I need to know like I'm super creative i'm super high agency you know you you show all these things to the person hiring and then the last thing is oh but you don't know the actual thing and you be like "Yeah yeah I talk to Shachi all the time."

[译文] [Gabriel]: 你只需要向对方证明：“是的，我很擅长向 ChatGPT（原文误听为ship）询问我需要知道的东西，我超级有创造力，我有极高的能动性（High Agency）。” 你把这些特质展示给招聘者看。如果最后的问题是：“噢，但你不懂具体的专业知识。” 你就可以说：“对，但我一直在跟 ChatGPT（原文误听为Shachi）交流。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: Like I'm really good at like extracting information like you have all knowledge in the world there knowledge is not a problem anymore

[译文] [Gabriel]: “我非常擅长提取信息。” 就像你拥有了世界上所有的知识。知识再也不是问题了。

[原文] [Sigil]: yeah yeah in the same way that you don't have to like go to an institution and then read up on something as like a prerequisite course for some potential solution or some potential application you can now just go into real world find problems like oh how do I like optimize this or how do I teach people faster or whatever problem you want to solve um and then you can query AI like chat GPT to figure out how you can solve it and how you can learn the different pieces of knowledge to solve it

[译文] [Sigil]: 是的，没错。就像你不再需要去某个机构，为了某个潜在的解决方案或应用去读什么先修课程一样。你现在可以直接进入现实世界，找到问题——比如“我该如何优化这个？”或者“我该如何更快地教会别人？”或者任何你想解决的问题——然后你可以询问像 ChatGPT 这样的 AI，弄清楚如何解决它，以及如何学习解决它所需的各个知识片段。

这是为您整理的访谈第五章。这一章是全篇的“方法论”核心。Gabriel 详细拆解了他如何利用 AI 颠覆传统的学习路径，提出了“自顶向下”（Top-Down）与“递归式补漏”（Recursive Gap Filling）的学习模型。

章节 5：颠覆传统：自顶向下的“递归式补漏”学习法

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，Gabriel 阐述了他认为最高效的学习方式——“自顶向下”（Top-Down）法。与学校传统的“自底向上”（Bottom-Up，即先学线性代数等基础再学应用）不同，他主张从一个具体的实际问题出发（例如“我要做一个扩散模型”），在解决问题的过程中，遇到不懂的知识点再向 AI 提问，层层下钻。

他犀利地指出，大学不再拥有对“基础知识”的垄断权。通过与 ChatGPT（原文多次误听为 LGBT/ship/Shachi）的深度对话，他可以要求 AI 用“12岁能懂的语言”解释复杂的数学概念，或者生成代码并逐行讲解，从而实现“递归式缺口填充”（Recursive Gap Filling）——即精准地找出知识盲区并迅速补齐。

[原文] [Sigil]: yeah yeah in the same way that you don't have to like go to an institution and then read up on something as like a prerequisite course for some potential solution or some potential application you can now just go into real world find problems like oh how do I like optimize this or how do I teach people faster or whatever problem you want to solve um and then you can query AI like chat GPT to figure out how you can solve it and how you can learn the different pieces of knowledge to solve it

[译文] [Sigil]: 是的，没错。就像你不再需要去某个机构，为了某个潜在的解决方案或应用去读什么先修课程一样。你现在可以直接进入现实世界，找到问题——比如“我该如何优化这个？”或者“我该如何更快地教会别人？”或者任何你想解决的问题——然后你可以询问像 ChatGPT 这样的 AI，弄清楚如何解决它，以及如何学习解决它所需的各个知识片段。

[原文] [Gabriel]: the way I think people learn the fastest is by what you would call like a like uh um top down approach right you'll probably learn faster if you start with a problem and then you can read about everything required to to to start solving the problem and then you find more problems and you read about those and then you go down to like the the core of the problem right so you start with actual task and you go down

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我认为人们学习最快的方式是所谓的“自顶向下”（Top-Down）方法。如果你从一个问题开始，然后阅读解决该问题所需的一切资料；接着你会发现更多子问题，再去阅读相关内容，最后层层深入到问题的核心。所以，你是从实际任务开始，然后向下深挖。

[原文] [Gabriel]: but that's extremely rare way to learn like in school everyone has this mindset right of like okay we need to start with the foundations we need to start like if you want to work with machine learning like you can forget about doing any machine learning for the first like four years right it's like math and and then you have like matrix classifications you have linear algorithm you have all these things that build up and then you have the simpler ML that's like super autoated you have like you know linear regression all these things that are still used partly but it's like it will take you very long time until you get like production grade ML

[译文] [Gabriel]: 但这种学习方式在学校里极其罕见。在学校，大家都有这种思维定势：“好吧，我们需要从基础开始。” 如果你想从事机器学习，你前四年基本别想碰真正的机器学习。你得先学数学，然后是矩阵分类、线性代数（原文误听为linear algorithm），你需要积累所有这些东西。然后你才能学那种超自动化的简单 ML，比如线性回归。这些东西虽然还在用，但你要花很长时间才能接触到生产级的机器学习。

[原文] [Gabriel]: Why is this well it's extremely hard to scale the top down approach because that requires like a teacher always being there for you it requires you being able to know exactly what piece of thing you need to learn at any point of time well if you do bottom up you know okay first you always learn this and then you always learn this and it's it's much easier to scale it's extremely inefficient and now with chatbt all this changes like this will change

[译文] [Gabriel]: 为什么会这样？因为“自顶向下”的方法很难规模化教学。这需要老师时刻在你身边，需要你在任何时间点都确切知道自己该学哪一块知识。而如果你用“自底向上”的方法，路径就很固定：“好吧，先学这个，再学那个。” 这样更容易规模化，但效率极低。现在有了 ChatGPT，这一切都变了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: people say education will change all the time but I can barely take universities seriously that don't teach LGBT as a part of their curriculum it's like actually insane that this is not like a a course that's taught from like 2 years old like suddenly foundational knowledge universities don't have like um a monopoly on on on foundational knowledge anymore you can just get any foundational knowledge from from ship

[译文] [Gabriel]: 人们总说教育会改变，但我几乎无法严肃看待那些不把 ChatGPT（原文误听为LGBT）纳入课程体系的大学。这简直疯了，这东西应该从两岁就开始教。突然之间，大学不再拥有对基础知识的垄断权了。你可以从 ChatGPT（原文误听为ship）那里获取任何基础知识。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and pe people haven't really internalized how top down problem solving works they will always tell you things you know like oh but you'll never actually understand the problem you'll never actually blah blah blah and this is not true you start with a problem you recursively go down like if I want to learn machine learning I ask okay what project should I do write the project for me i have bugs i start fixing the bugs and then things work

[译文] [Gabriel]: 人们还没有真正内化“自顶向下”解决问题的逻辑。他们总是会对你说：“噢，但你永远不会真正理解这个问题，你永远不会……”但这并不是真的。你从一个问题开始，递归地向下钻研。比如我想学机器学习，我会问：“好吧，我该做什么项目？帮我写这个项目。” 然后会出现 Bug，我开始修 Bug，然后程序跑通了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and from there um I start with a specific part of the machine learning problem like okay uh what happens here can you explain to me with intuition why this module here makes the model learn and it will explain to you and then it say oh it uses matrix multiplication and linear algebra you know okay how do they work what's the math intuition behind this like show me like make up a couple graphs to really make me get an intuition for this part of ML and then suddenly you have all the foundational knowledge like it doesn't need to go bottom up anymore

[译文] [Gabriel]: 接着，我从机器学习问题的某个具体部分切入：“好吧，这里发生了什么？你能凭直觉解释一下为什么这个模块能让模型学习吗？” 它会向你解释，然后提到：“噢，这使用了矩阵乘法和线性代数。” 然后你问：“好吧，那它们是怎么工作的？背后的数学直觉是什么？给我画几个图表，让我真正对这一部分建立直觉。” 突然之间，你就掌握了所有的基础知识，根本不需要再“自底向上”了。

[原文] [Sigil]: so how do you use AI to learn how did you use AI to self teach yourself math and machine learning to now work at OpenAI

[译文] [Sigil]: 那么你是如何用 AI 来学习的？你是如何利用 AI 自学数学和机器学习，从而进入 OpenAI 工作的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: i did a very similar thing to what I was describing before so I currently work at Sora where we're building uh these video models at OpenAI and I wanted to learn things like you know the basics of of of image models so I asked JP hey what are the the most fundamental concepts of of like video and and image models in AI and they started talking about okay we we had these things called autoenccoders we have these things called diffusion models and I was like yeah that that sounds interesting I've heard about this everywhere that's very cool now you know write all the code for diffusion model and it writes all the code and I have no idea what's going on right okay here's a bunch of code holy shit

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我做的事情和我刚才描述的非常相似。我目前在 OpenAI 的 Sora 团队构建视频模型。我想学习图像模型的基础知识，所以我问 ChatGPT（原文误听为JP）：“嘿，AI 中视频和图像模型最基本的概念是什么？” 它开始讲：“好吧，我们有自编码器（Autoencoders），有扩散模型（Diffusion Models）。” 我说：“听起来很有趣，我到处都听到这个词，太酷了。现在，帮我写出扩散模型的所有代码。” 它就写出了所有代码。我当时完全不知道发生了什么，看着那一堆代码心想：“我靠（Holy shit）。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then then you try to get it working you debug it together you tell it what's wrong and then you start to build up intuition of like okay this happens here this happens here this happens here and then you continue to just understand in detail what every single line of code does right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后你试着让代码跑起来，你和它一起调试，告诉它哪里出了错。然后你开始建立直觉：“好吧，这里发生了这个，那里发生了那个。” 接着你继续深入，直到详细理解每一行代码在做什么。

[原文] [Gabriel]: so you're like okay what does this part do what does this part do so for example for for diffusion model for example uh you could take a part like part for example called uh a restn net for example is resonant blocks and they uh do a bunch of transformation and and and and then they also have a residual uh which is basically like you you let data pass through in a certain way which makes the model learn more easy right and at the start I have no idea how this is done right and you start asking ch follow-ups follow-ups

[译文] [Gabriel]: 你会问：“这一部分是干嘛的？” 举个例子，在扩散模型中，你可能会看到像 ResNet（残差网络，原文误听为restn net）这样的部分，或者残差块（Resonant Blocks）。它们做了一堆变换，还有一个残差连接（Residual），基本上就是让数据以某种方式通过，使模型更容易学习。起初我根本不知道这是怎么实现的，于是你就开始不停地追问 ChatGPT（原文误听为ch）。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and it will tell you something like what I just told you but you still have a huge question mark like what is this what does this mean like what do you mean it learns more efficiently and what what do you do then well follow up and you'll be like well h how does it learn more efficiently because it's doing this you like oh yeah the the gradients can flow in these X YC different ways and in the scenario that you wouldn't do this thing they would be stopped at XYZ things right and you just continue to ask the model constantly until you really understand

[译文] [Gabriel]: 它会告诉你一些解释，就像我刚才说的那样，但你脑子里还是有个巨大的问号：“这是什么？这意味什么？你说‘学习效率更高’是什么意思？” 这时你该怎么办？继续追问。你会问：“为什么这样做效率就更高？” 它会说：“噢，因为梯度可以以 XYZ 这种方式流动，如果不这样做，它们会在 XYZ 处被阻断。” 你就这样不断地问模型，直到你真正理解为止。

[原文] [Sigil]: i see it a bit as like recursive gap filling if I would like summarize it in one word it's like you need like the skill that's required here is knowing what gaps you have in your knowledge like say you have an AI model or like whatever else you want to learn and understanding when you don't really understand the part it's actually pretty hard to do like it's something you need to train up and practice on yourself like wait a second do I really understand this part

[译文] [Sigil]: 我把这看作是一种“递归式缺口填充”（Recursive Gap Filling）。如果让我总结的话，这里需要的核心技能是——知道你的知识缺口在哪里。比如当你面对一个 AI 模型或者任何你想学的东西时，你需要意识到自己什么时候并没有真正理解某一部分。这其实很难做到，这是一种你需要自我训练和练习的能力，能够停下来说：“等一下，我真的理解这一部分了吗？”

这是为您整理的访谈第六章。本章进入了极具实操性的层面，Gabriel 分享了他个人的“独门秘籍”——如何通过特定的 Prompt（提示词）技巧，强迫 AI 帮助自己达成“顿悟”时刻。

章节 6：追逐“顿悟”时刻：具体的 AI 提问技巧

📝 本节摘要：

在这一章中，Gabriel 深入拆解了他使用 AI 学习的具体战术。他提出，高效学习的核心在于“追逐那个‘咔哒’一下的时刻”（Chasing the click）——即彻底理解某个概念时的顿悟瞬间。

为了达到这个状态，他分享了几个关键的 Prompt 技巧：要求 AI “极其直接和具体”、“展示所有中间状态”，以及经典的“像教12岁孩子一样解释”（Explain like I'm 12）。他强调，必须建立一种条件反射：一旦脑海中出现任何疑问，哪怕是凌晨4点写代码时，也要立刻向 AI 提问，直到彻底弄懂为止。

[原文] [Sigil]: how would someone else learn how to learn with AI

[译文] [Sigil]: 其他人该如何学会“如何利用 AI 学习”？

[原文] [Gabriel]: this is a very good question I mean first of all just change like the misconception of AI being used to do the work for you to instead you know use the AI to explicitly help you learn like you you don't you don't just use it to get work done you actually learn from it

[译文] [Gabriel]: 这是一个非常好的问题。首先，要改变“AI 是用来替你干活的”这种误解，转而利用 AI 明确地帮助你学习。你不仅是用它来完成工作，你是真的从它那里学到东西。

[原文] [Gabriel]: I mean the moment you just switch that mindset which seems still fairly uncommon but is becoming more and more common all the time you have most of the things to to get there right and and then to become really good first of all like I said like know when you have gaps in your knowledge understand what it feels like when you fundamentally grasp something

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我是说，只要你转变了这个思维方式——这种思维目前还很少见，但正在变得越来越普遍——你就掌握了达成目标的大部分要素。然后，要想真正变得精通，首先就像我说的，要察觉到你的知识缺口，要理解当你从根本上掌握某样东西时是什么感觉。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and you know you you you'll constantly come up with all these hacks like uh you you'll notice will respond in a fairly standard way and your way of learning is probably not exactly what it responds like because it wants to you know make sure everyone has a good experience but you probably want it to respond in another way

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后你会不断想出各种“黑客技巧”。你会发现它（AI）通常会以一种相当标准的方式回答，但你的学习方式可能并不是它回答的那样，因为它想要确保每个人都有良好的体验，但你可能需要它以另一种方式回应。

[原文] [Gabriel]: i very often tell it for example be extremely direct and concrete always show me all the intermediate states and the shapes of the code you produce make sure to to make sure I have like a really intuitive understanding of why it happens

[译文] [Gabriel]: 比如我经常告诉它：“要极其直接和具体，永远向我展示所有中间状态以及你生成的代码的形状（shapes），确保我对它发生的原因有一个真正直观的理解。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and if you're unsure make sure you show me options and like what others have tried and why this works and why something else didn't work and you start becoming good at like asking these questions that give you the aha moment like as fast as possible you want to get to the aha moment

[译文] [Gabriel]: “如果你不确定，请确保向我展示不同的选项，比如别人尝试过什么，为什么这个行得通而其他的行不通。” 你开始擅长问这些能让你尽快获得“啊哈时刻”（顿悟时刻）的问题。你要做的就是尽快到达那个“啊哈时刻”。

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah like the first time you understood linear algebra or the first time you understood what back propagation works you probably had a very clear like oh wow it finally clicked and to chase these clicks and to make them appear like as frequent as possible right that's like kind of your utility function

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，就像你第一次理解线性代数，或者第一次明白反向传播（Back Propagation）是如何工作时那样，你可能会有一种非常清晰的感觉：“噢哇，终于通了（Clicked）。” 去追逐这些“咔哒”一下通了的时刻，让它们尽可能频繁地出现，这就是你的效用函数（Utility Function，指优化的目标）。

[原文] [Sigil]: that's crazy it's like in modern day in order to stay competitive and to be like top performing when you look at someone like honestly they can they'll be the top at the field pretty quickly like how you've done it just by the rate of being able to query for information and that's probably like the most important skill now would you say

[译文] [Sigil]: 这太疯狂了。就像在现代，为了保持竞争力并成为顶尖表现者——当你观察某人时，老实说，他们可以非常快地成为该领域的顶尖人物，就像你所做的那样，仅仅依靠查询信息的速率。你觉得这可能是现在最重要的技能吗？

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah and and and you know building up this like this is another very important like build up the moment you have a question in your head make sure to get it into ship this one is very hard this took me I remember my my cousin the same cousin I started a company with he was like um dude ship is out this is like pre pre like the what's it called like think of this book back in the day when it was just like a playground was like super early GP3 like before ship

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，还有建立这种习惯——这是另一个非常重要的点——当你脑子里一出现问题的瞬间，确保立刻把它输入到 ChatGPT（原文误听为ship）。这其实很难。我记得我表哥，就是和我一起创业的那个，他对我说：“哥们，ChatGPT（原文误听为ship）出来了。” 那是很早之前，早期的 GPT-3 游乐场（Playground）时期，甚至在 ChatGPT 发布之前。

[原文] [Gabriel]: And he was like "Why are you not using this yet?" Like "You're writing code all the time." Like "Yeah I'm going to try it out." And you know he kept on pushing me every month and it took me like a year until I really started connecting like "Oh I have this problem i need to ask ShashT."

[译文] [Gabriel]: 他当时问我：“你为什么还不用这个？你整天都在写代码。” 我说：“是啊，我会试一下的。” 他每个月都在催我，但我大概花了一年时间才真正建立起这种连接：“噢，我有这个问题，我需要问 ChatGPT（原文误听为ShashT）。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: And it's so common like you meet people all the time you're in a discussion and people have all these questions or you sit co-working with someone they have all these questions you know and you're like you should ask Shash just like every time you have any kind of question anytime you need to guess about something just constantly ask Shach like it's it's always there it's very low effort like make sure you have a very simple way to just ask about anything you ever wonder and you'll just you know have all knowledge in the world

[译文] [Gabriel]: 这种现象太常见了。你经常遇到这种人，你们在讨论时他们有一堆问题，或者你和别人一起办公时他们有一堆问题。你会想：“你应该问 ChatGPT（原文误听为Shash/Shach）啊。” 就像每次你有任何问题，或者你需要猜测某事时，就不断地问 ChatGPT。它永远在那里，费力极小。确保你有一种非常简单的方式去询问你疑惑的任何事，这样你就拥有了世界上所有的知识。

[原文] [Sigil]: yeah but the important part is like almost getting hooked on like how fast you can get to that aha moment of realizing or internalizing something and the skill of being able to prompt chat GBD not in a generic way but in a way where it will give you very concrete um or uh you know different analogies or how whatever form factor that works best with your learning style

[译文] [Sigil]: 是的，但关键在于你要对自己能多快达到那个“理解或内化某事”的“啊哈时刻”上瘾。而且这是一种向 ChatGPT 提问的技能——不是用通用的方式，而是用一种能给你非常具体的信息、或者不同的类比，或者任何最适合你学习风格的形式。

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah for you to then understand and internalize that which is really hard or I mean I think I'm pretty dumb so it's like it's like sometimes when I answer such stuff and it explains it and I'm like I I don't understand i don't understand this is just too hard and and you try again you try again and you're like okay and then you really grab you're like ah you're like okay from thing skills time right and and you're like okay what if this these features in the world didn't exist and what if that never existed would they still have invented this thing and explain it to me like I'm 12

[译文] [Gabriel]: 对，为了让你理解并内化，这其实很难。或者说，我觉得我自己挺笨的，所以有时候它解释了一些东西，我还是觉得：“我不懂，我不懂，这太难了。” 然后你再试一次，再试一次。然后你会问：“好吧，如果世界上不存在这些特征，如果那个从未存在过，他们还会发明这个东西吗？请像我12岁一样解释给我听。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and you know generate graphs showing the distributions that I need to know to really understand this like you know there's so many creative ways you can use to to really extract the information you need from shacht and I think a lot of the things I've learned especially like with previous models like sh is becoming so much better all the time but like like a year ago when the models weren't as strong some of the things I've learned is like I probably couldn't learn them if I didn't like really know how to extract the information like I I could ask the question a thousand times and make it rephrase it a thousand times I just didn't wouldn't understand this

[译文] [Gabriel]: 还有：“生成图表，展示我真正理解这个问题所需的分布情况。” 你知道，有很多创造性的方法可以用来从 ChatGPT（原文误听为shacht）那里真正提取你需要的信息。我觉得我学到的很多东西，尤其是用之前的旧模型时——现在的模型一直在变强，但一年前模型没那么强的时候——如果我不知道如何从里面提取信息，我可能根本学不会。我可以问一千次问题，让它重述一千次，但我可能还是不懂。

这是为您整理的访谈第七章。这一章不仅展示了 Gabriel 在 OpenAI 的实际工作流程，更触及了本次访谈最核心的行业洞察：AI 如何打破学历的天花板。他详细描述了如何利用 AI 协助最前沿的科研工作（Sora 项目），以及如何区分“走捷径”与“真正掌握基础”的界限。

章节 7：打破学历垄断：用 AI 胜任 PhD 级别的工作

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，Gabriel 提出了一个极具冲击力的观点：大学不再拥有对“基础知识”的垄断权。他以自己为例——一个没有博士学位、甚至没有大学学位的“局外人”，却在 OpenAI 做着传统观念中只有 PhD 才能胜任的工作。

他揭秘了自己在 Sora 团队的日常工作流：观察视频 -> 发现缺陷 -> 向 AI 寻求架构改进的灵感 -> 实施代码。他还分享了如何高效阅读论文（只读与前作的差异点）以及他对“走捷径”的独特定义：他不是为了逃避工作而走捷径，而是为了更快速地深入理解底层基础。他强调自己拒绝做一个只懂复制粘贴的“氛围感程序员”（Vibe Coder）。

[原文] [Gabriel]: this is why they should teach sashi in in like from elementary school this is like you know a new language this is like you know you still need all other things in life like creativity you know agency and like all these other things but like knowledge is like a completely new era like you can't compare this with anything else

[译文] [Gabriel]: 这就是为什么他们应该从小学就开始教 ChatGPT（原文误听为sashi）。这就像是一门新语言。你当然还需要生活中的其他东西，比如创造力、能动性以及所有这些，但在知识获取上，这是一个全新的时代，你无法将其与其他任何东西相提并论。

[原文] [Gabriel]: very concrete example of this because people doesn't don't seem to realize how like AI like how abruptly this will change the world like currently I'm doing a job which traditionally everyone would agree you need like a PhD for right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 举个非常具体的例子，因为人们似乎还没意识到 AI 会如何——如何突飞猛进地改变世界。比如，我现在正在做一份工作，传统上大家都认为这需要博士学位（PhD）才能做，对吧？

[原文] [Gabriel]: there's a bunch of people who have done it without a PhD but like if you told someone like five years ago like oh yeah at one of top AI labs someone will be hired who hasn't you know really done the thing for a while and the only thing he had was that he had was like he had done like all these very cool things on other areas but they didn't know anything about this thing people like no that that that's not possible right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 虽然也有一群人没有博士学位也做到了，但如果你五年前告诉别人：“噢，在顶尖 AI 实验室里，会雇佣一个并没有在这个领域深耕很久的人，他唯一的资本就是在其他领域做过一些很酷的事情，但他对这个（AI）领域一无所知。” 人们会说：“不，这不可能，对吧？”

[原文] [Gabriel]: uh but we are now in a scenario where I can do the job traditionally only you know downward people have done it for like multiple years just by using chach that's insane like the amount how fast the world will develop with chach like you can just do research in anything you want if you want to start doing bio research you want to are doing like hardware you can just go and do things

[译文] [Gabriel]: 呃，但我们现在处于这样一个场景：我可以胜任一份传统上只有那些深耕多年的人才能做的工作，仅仅通过使用 ChatGPT（原文误听为chach）。这太疯狂了。有了 ChatGPT，世界发展的速度将难以想象。你可以在任何你想做的领域做研究。如果你想开始做生物学研究，或者想做硬件，你可以直接动手去做。

[原文] [Gabriel]: um it's just incredible this this will be like a double digit increase in world GDP like just coming from large language models and anyone can do it as long as it they know how to use chatbt yeah it's 20 bucks per month and you know the thinking models are like really really good when it comes to like coding and like understanding things

[译文] [Gabriel]: 这简直不可思议。世界 GDP 将会因此出现两位数的增长，这仅仅源于大语言模型。任何人只要知道如何使用 ChatGPT 就能做到。是的，这只要每月20美元，而且你知道，那些（具有推理能力的）思考模型在写代码和理解事物方面真的非常非常强。

[原文] [Sigil]: how do you use chatebt to learn as you build out like one of the world's best video models

[译文] [Sigil]: 当你在构建世界顶尖的视频模型（指 Sora）时，你是如何利用 ChatGPT 来学习的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: it's very simple like a lot of people ask me this and they're always confused like okay what you actually do right like what do you do and you know they imagine I don't know what they imagine but you know something very very special right and it's it's fairly simple

[译文] [Gabriel]: 其实非常简单。很多人问我这个问题，他们总是很困惑：“好吧，那你到底在做什么？你具体干什么？” 他们可能想象我在做——我不知道他们想象什么，可能是一些非常非常特殊的事情吧。但实际上相当简单。

[原文] [Gabriel]: you know you look at the video and you're like ah this part of the video doesn't look very good so you go and you change the architecture in the model a bit or you change the data or something and you know you you train the model you look at the results you stare at videos for for a while and you're like "Oh these videos were better that's great this this goes into to monster." And then you just do that on a loop right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 你看着生成的视频，你会想：“啊，视频的这一部分看起来不太好。” 所以你就去稍微修改一下模型架构，或者修改一下数据之类的。然后你训练模型，查看结果，盯着视频看一会儿，然后你会说：“噢，这些视频变好了，太棒了，这部分可以合入主分支（Monster，可能指主代码库）了。” 然后你就一直循环这样做。

[原文] [Gabriel]: you're like "Okay what's the next thing that I want to fix or the next thing I want to try?" And that's where like AI is really good right cuz it's like "Oh I have this specific problem hello AI." You know here's my entire codebase uh tell me 10 ideas of what I can do to improve this right it'll tell you a bunch of ideas it'll refer to papers you can read it'll do all these like really great things and it will give you like a bunch of ideas like really good to brainstorm with

[译文] [Gabriel]: 你会想：“好吧，接下来我想修复什么？或者我想尝试什么？” 这就是 AI 真正擅长的地方。你可以说：“噢，我有这个具体问题。你好 AI，这是我整个代码库，呃，给我 10 个改进这个问题的点子。” 它会给你一堆点子，它会提到你可以阅读的相关论文，它会做所有这些很棒的事情。它会给你一堆非常适合用来头脑风暴的想法。

[原文] [Sigil]: wow how does it find like other research papers to uh to suggest you to explore

[译文] [Sigil]: 哇，它是怎么找到其他研究论文来建议你探索的？

[原文] [Gabriel]: he just knows about them knows yeah like 4.0 just like I think even earlier models you just print out the links and you press the link and you're and it would just work because the model just memorized the link knows the links uh to to like the big papers like equivalent to smaller papers but you can also use you know the search function uh you can just turn on the search while you're speaking to it and like yeah find some papers talking about this right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 它就是知道。是的，像 GPT-4.0，甚至我觉得更早的模型，你只要打印出链接，点击链接，它就能工作，因为模型记住了那些大论文的链接。对于小一点的论文，你也可以使用搜索功能，你可以在和它对话时打开搜索功能，说：“去找一些讨论这个话题的论文。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: uh and then you know obviously I don't read the papers word for word i you know you me too i have my my instructions like okay I want to you know give me a list of things this paper did differently because often times a paper they take some technique that I already know about and they introduce some new things to it and I just ask it okay compared to the other thing tell me a list and be extremely concrete of exactly what they did that compares to the previous thing and that's a really good summarization

[译文] [Gabriel]: 然后，显然我不会逐字逐句地读论文。我有我的指令，比如：“好吧，给我列出这篇论文做了哪些不同的事情。” 因为很多时候，一篇论文会采用我已经知道的某种技术，然后引入一些新东西。我就问它：“好吧，和那个东西相比，给我一个列表，极其具体地告诉我他们做的哪些事情与之前不同。” 这是一个非常好的总结方式。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and often times you know you're like ah this paper probably wouldn't make it it's not worth trying out and you can just go to the next one or like ah this paper is really good like I only read the paper in depth if I actually decide to implement it and then I probably will read it when if I have bugs like I probably just like throw in all my code and be like hey implement this into my code and just copy paste it in oh wow

[译文] [Gabriel]: 很多时候你会发现：“啊，这篇论文大概行不通，不值得尝试。” 你就可以直接看下一篇。或者你会觉得：“啊，这篇论文真的很棒。” 只有当我真正决定要实现它时，我才会深入阅读这篇论文。甚至就算那时候，我也可能只是在我遇到 Bug 时才读。我可能会直接把我所有的代码扔进去，说：“嘿，把这个实现到我的代码里。” 然后直接复制粘贴。 [Sigil]: 噢哇。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and you know I I I obviously make sure to like really read through the code i think it's extremely important you can't just throw in code no I'm I'm I'm not a vibe coder i'm I'm very opinionated when it comes to code

[译文] [Gabriel]: 当然，我会确保真正通读一遍代码。我认为这极其重要，你不能只是把代码扔进去不管。不，我不是那种“凭感觉写代码的人”（Vibe Coder，指只复制不理解的程序员）。我对代码有很强的个人主张。

[原文] [Sigil]: no it sounds like you have like the a very different approach where like if you actually want to build like you know really concrete things like you need to understand everything right because especially if you're pushing like a forefront of any field I mean I want to understand all the foundations

[译文] [Sigil]: 不，听起来你有一种非常不同的方法。如果你真的想构建非常具体的东西，你需要理解一切，对吧？尤其是当你在推动任何领域的前沿时。

[原文] [Gabriel]: I think the the first reaction people have is like oh you just want to take shortcuts you don't really want to understand things you just think you can slop out a bunch of AI slope right and I think this is the correct route like I I want to take shortcuts that's for sure but I want to take shortcuts to understand all the foundations and that's very important distin

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我觉得人们的第一反应通常是：“噢，你只是想走捷径，你并不想真正理解事物，你只是觉得你可以倒出一堆 AI 生成的垃圾（AI Slop），对吧？” 但我认为这才是正确的路线。确实，我想走捷径，这毫无疑问，但我想走的是“理解所有基础知识”的捷径。这是一个非常重要的区别。

这是为您整理的访谈第八章。这一章不仅是职业发展的实战指南，更揭示了硅谷独特的“生存法则”。Gabriel 分享了他如何通过“合同工”模式快速迭代技能，利用 Stack Overflow 解决签证难题，以及如何用最直接的“演示（Demo）”打破大公司的学历门槛。

章节 8：进军旧金山：用 Stack Overflow 拿签证与“演示为王”的求职法

📝 本节摘要：

在本章中，Gabriel 讲述了他从瑞典斯德哥尔摩跨越到旧金山的策略。为了以最快速度学习，他刻意选择以“合同工”身份与顶尖团队合作，极力避免在职业早期长期停留在一家公司。

他揭秘了一个极具创意的“黑客”操作：利用 Stack Overflow 的高分问答作为“学术发表”证据，成功申请到了美国 O-1 杰出人才签证。

针对求职，他给出了至简的真理：“公司只想赚钱”。他建议求职者通过制作一个极简但直观的 Demo（演示），直接向决策者证明自己能创造价值，从而绕过看重学历的 HR 和招聘流程。

[原文] [Sigil]: so you're in Stockholm you left your first startup and how did you find your way to San Francisco what did you do

[译文] [Sigil]: 所以你当时在斯德哥尔摩，离开了你的第一家创业公司。你是怎么找到路子去旧金山的？你做了什么？

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah I always knew wanted to continue to work in startups and always had my sights on San Francisco cuz you know all the best people I knew had moved here all the you know all the best companies people were talking about were here and I noticed that like probably I should just like super optimize for learning as fast as possible

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，我一直知道我想继续在初创公司工作，并且一直把目光投向旧金山。因为你知道，我认识的所有最优秀的人都搬到了这里，人们谈论的所有最好的公司也都在这里。我意识到，我应该超级优化我的学习速度，让它尽可能快。

[原文] [Gabriel]: back then the best thing you could do was to work with the very best people so that's what I try to do and so so how do you work with the best people well you talk to as many companies as possible you make sure you know you you interview the person interviewing you right like what have you done like do you do do you guys do pull requests do you make sure to really review my PR so I actually know what mistakes I do

[译文] [Gabriel]: 在那时（ChatGPT 出现前），你能做的最好的事就是和最优秀的人一起工作，所以我就是这么做的。那么，如何与最优秀的人一起工作呢？你要和尽可能多的公司谈，你要确保——你要反向面试那个面试你的人。比如：“你们做过什么？你们做代码审查（Pull Requests）吗？你们能确保真的仔细审查我的代码提交吗？这样我就能知道我犯了什么错。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: um I also made sure to to be like I generally worked as a contractor like the biggest mistakes people do is that they stay with the same company for way too long early in their careers that's like by far the biggest mistake I see in people's careers

[译文] [Gabriel]: 呃，我还确保自己通常以合同工（Contractor）的身份工作。人们在职业生涯早期犯的最大错误，就是在一个公司待得太久。这是我看到的人们职业生涯中目前为止最大的错误。

[原文] [Sigil]: so it sounds like a year after dropping out of high school you know after your first company you just kept finding the best teams or the best engineers or the best people that you thought you know you could work with and you work with them for a bit you learn what it could and then you kept finding new opportunities or like better teams

[译文] [Sigil]: 所以听起来就像是，在你高中辍学一年后，也就是离开第一家公司后，你就一直在寻找最好的团队、最好的工程师，或者你认为可以共事的最好的人。你和他们工作一阵子，学到能学的东西，然后继续寻找新的机会或者更好的团队？,

[原文] [Gabriel]: Yeah I used to only take contract roles to make sure that like that I could be very mobile in the places I work with you try to find the best places to work with with the best people you try to work as closely with them as possible make sure you're opinionated about what you're working with so you don't only get to do like the tasks no one else wants to do because then you're not learning

[译文] [Gabriel]: 对，我过去只接受合同制的角色，以确保我在工作地点上非常灵活。你试着找到最好的一群人工作，试着尽可能紧密地与他们共事。确保你对自己做的工作有主见，这样你就不会只被分配做那些没人愿意做的杂活，因为那样你是学不到东西的。

[原文] [Gabriel]: make sure you really show appreciation for the people reviewing your code because that's the best source of getting feedback getting feedback in general and you know hunt feedback i mean tell people hey I really like your review can you just review every single feedback of mine people be like shocked like oh wow I never heard someone liking feedback before

[译文] [Gabriel]: 确保你对审查你代码的人真正表示感谢，因为那是获取反馈的最佳来源。总之要“猎取”反馈。我是说，告诉人们：“嘿，我真的很喜欢你的审查，你能审查我的每一条反馈吗？” 人们会感到震惊：“噢哇，我从没听说过有人喜欢被挑错的。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and then I ended up joining Mid Journey after joining Mid Journey I was like yeah okay now I maybe can do O1 and and turns out the O1 visa there's like so many creative ways you can get an O1 visa very many creative ways for example one thing we used for my own visa was my Stack Overflow posts

[译文] [Gabriel]: 后来我加入了 Midjourney。加入 Midjourney 后，我想：“好吧，现在我也许可以申请 O-1 签证（杰出人才签证）了。” 结果发现，获取 O-1 签证有很多非常有创意的方法。例如，我自己的签证申请中用到的一个东西，就是我的 Stack Overflow 帖子。,

[原文] [Gabriel]: i remember my cousin telling me "Oh you're wasting your time answering a bunch of Stack Overflow questions." I was like "You don't know maybe it's helpful at some point." And turns out Stack Overflow posts can be counted as Yeah here we have it even here's my post about it so you can use Stack Overflow post to get the academic publishing criteria for your O1 which is legitimate

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我记得我表哥曾跟我说：“噢，你在浪费时间回答那一堆 Stack Overflow 的问题。” 我当时说：“你不懂，也许这在某个时候会有用。” 结果证明，Stack Overflow 的帖子可以被算作——是的，我甚至发过相关的推文——你可以用 Stack Overflow 的帖子来满足 O-1 签证中的“学术发表”标准，这是合法的。

[原文] [Gabriel]: if you are a nobody if you are from the middle of nowhere like how you know you are from the middle of nowhere in Sweden if you're a nobody how would you go about showing your value to someone important the number one thing I recommend to people is making a demo that is super super simple

[译文] [Gabriel]: 如果你是个无名小卒，如果你来自某个鸟不拉屎的地方——比如瑞典的某个偏僻角落——如果你是个无名小卒，你该如何向重要人物展示你的价值？我向人们推荐的第一件事就是：做一个超级、超级简单的 Demo（演示）。

[原文] [Gabriel]: it's actually really hard to make a good demo for a lot of reasons everyone thinks it's hard because they need to make a demo that is hard and they don't have the skills this is very not true you can make very simple like you don't need that many much code knowledge to make a really cool simp cool cool demo

[译文] [Gabriel]: 实际上，做一个好的 Demo 很难，但这有很多原因。大家都以为难点在于需要做一个技术上很难的 Demo，而他们没有那个技能。但这完全不对。你可以做得非常简单，你不需要那么多代码知识就能做一个非常酷、简单的 Demo。

[原文] [Gabriel]: the hard part of making a demo is making sure that people understand why you can code within 3 seconds you know you have like 100 like applicants for something if you apply with one link and they press the link and you know you have one shot right like making sure you build a really cool demo where people understand what they're looking at which is really hard and where people understand that you're a really good engineer which is really hard

[译文] [Gabriel]: 制作 Demo 真正的难点在于：确保人们在 3 秒钟内就能明白你为什么会写代码。 你知道，一个职位可能有100个申请人。如果你申请时附带一个链接，他们点开链接——你只有一次机会。要确保你构建了一个非常酷的 Demo，让人们瞬间明白他们在看什么，并且明白你是一个非常优秀的工程师，这才是真正难的地方。

[原文] [Gabriel]: i mean companies just want to make money you show them how to make money that you can code and they'll hire you and then you might say "Oh but they only hire people with degrees." Well yeah because literally no one has ever showed them that they can do their work

[译文] [Gabriel]: 我的意思是，公司其实只想赚钱。你只要向他们证明你会写代码、能帮他们赚钱，他们就会雇佣你。然后你可能会说：“噢，但他们只招有学位的人。” 呃，是的，那是因为几乎从来没有人（通过其他方式）向他们证明过自己能胜任工作。

[原文] [Gabriel]: they're like "Oh I had these internships." And the interviewer would be like "Okay what did you do there?" Oh I streamlined pipelines and made things 30% more efficient and like uh okay well that tells me literally nothing okay what what else what have you done oh I went to Harvard i have the best grades well I still don't know if you can do the job right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 那些人会说：“噢，我有这些实习经历。” 面试官会问：“好吧，你在那儿做了什么？” “噢，我优化了流程管道，把效率提高了30%……” 好吧，这对我来说毫无意义。好吧，还有什么？你还做了什么？“噢，我去了哈佛，我有最好的成绩。” 好吧，我还是不知道你到底能不能干这活儿。

[原文] [Gabriel]: people don't know that you can just talk to people you can just go to an event with tech people and like every single startup I know wants to hire people who have high agency and can learn things literally if you're really good at using Shibb you saw one of these people at a random event you went up and talked to them and you give them some advice and you're like yeah I'd like to can we try working together for a week for free

[译文] [Gabriel]: 人们不知道其实你可以直接去找人谈。你可以去参加科技圈的活动。我认识的每一家初创公司都想招那些具有高能动性（High Agency）且学习能力强的人。真的，如果你很擅长使用 ChatGPT（原文误听为Shibb），你在某个活动上看到这些人，你走上去跟他们聊，给他们一些建议，然后说：“对，我想——我们能不能试着免费合作一周？”,

[原文] [Gabriel]: this would be super fun like I have these random ideas I just came up with that I can work with with you that are you know no commitment from your side no time from your side just like get a free data point if I'm good or not and 100% of them would say yes they're like "Oh great i don't need to do anything and I can see if you're good."

[译文] [Gabriel]: “这会超级好玩。我刚想出了一些点子，我可以和你一起做。你知道，你那边不需要任何承诺，也不需要花你的时间，你就当是获取一个关于我‘行不行’的免费数据点。” 100% 的人都会答应的。 他们会想：“噢太棒了，我什么都不用做就能看看你是不是个人才。”

这是为您整理的访谈第九章（也是最后一章）。

在本章中，Gabriel 对传统高等教育体系发出了最犀利的抨击，将其比作“成人托儿所”。随后，他用一个身边朋友薪资翻十倍的真实案例，论证了打破心理舒适区、前往旧金山的必要性。访谈最后，他谈到了困扰许多人的“冒名顶替综合征”，并以温暖的鼓励作为结尾，指出只要具备“能动性”，你就已经领先了99%的人。

章节 9：大学是“成人托儿所”与旧金山的引力：摆脱平庸的最后一步

📝 本节摘要：

在这最后一章中，Gabriel 提出了极具争议但也极具洞察力的观点：大学在很多时候只是一个“成人托儿所”，它的主要功能是让年轻人推迟面对现实、推迟做决定的时间。

他随后深入探讨了“地理套利”的重要性，讲述了一位瑞典朋友仅仅因为克服了心理障碍来到旧金山，薪资瞬间翻了十倍的故事。他指出，大多数人处于一种“永久性的轻度痛苦”中，因为他们不敢做出情感上艰难的决定。

访谈的最后，Gabriel 坦承自己曾认为自己是个“白痴”，并鼓励听众：只要你愿意花时间去行动、去学习，你就已经是世界上前 1% 的人了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: university in a lot of ways is in a super controversial way but like I see it a bit like an adult daycare you have a bunch of people who needs to take a decision about what they want to do further on in life and you don't want to make a decision and then an option comes up especially in Sweden where you don't even pay for college

[译文] [Gabriel]: 大学在很多方面——这说法超级有争议——但我把它看作有点像“成人托儿所”。这里有一群需要决定未来人生要做什么的人，但你不想做决定。然后一个选项出现了，尤其是在瑞典，上大学甚至不用花钱。

[原文] [Gabriel]: wow they're like "Oh yeah here you can get free money and push making decisions further into the future." And we also have all these courses where you don't even need to decide like if you want to be a lawyer you got to do this niche thing but if you don't want to be a lawyer we have this like uh you know civil engineering or or or industrial economy and all these like courses where you don't even need to decide what you do you just continue doing random things for five more years and you just push your decision people love pushing decisions right

[译文] [Sigil]: 哇。

[Gabriel]: 他们就像在说：“噢是的，这里有免费的钱拿，你还可以把做决定的时间推到更远的未来。” 我们还有各种不需要做决定的课程。比如你想当律师，你得学特定的东西；但如果你不想当律师，我们有像土木工程、工业经济之类的课程，你甚至不需要决定你要做什么，你只是继续做五年随机的事情，你只是在推迟做决定。人们太爱推迟做决定了，对吧？

[原文] [Gabriel]: 70% of people are in permanent light suffering because they are allergic to making any mentally tough decisions when there is also an option to do nothing

[译文] [Gabriel]: 70% 的人处于一种“永久性的轻度痛苦”中，因为通过选择“什么都不做”这个选项，他们对做任何精神上艰难的决定都过敏。

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah this is a very good post this summarizes I think why you know if people read this post understood it and acted on it i think like the the happiness level in the world would rise by like 20% or something wow like the the the work satisfaction you'd have cuz I've realized that it's so easy for people to make bad decisions when it's emotionally tough and people don't know when it's emotionally tough because your brain doesn't really like let you know this right

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，这篇帖子写得很好。我认为如果人们读了这篇帖子，理解并付诸行动，我觉得世界的幸福指数大概会上升 20%。真的，你的工作满意度会大幅提升。因为我意识到，当面对情感上的艰难（emotionally tough）时，人们太容易做出糟糕的决定了。而且人们往往意识不到这种艰难，因为你的大脑并不想让你知道这一点。

[原文] [Gabriel]: so one very very clear example is I had a friend in Sweden uh I was making a normal Swedish salary which is extremely low C2SF standards from his standards were pretty good right he was living life i mean in Sweden he had like a you know probably like 50% higher than a normal salary and I told him many times I was like dude why do you not apply to San Francisco i mean you'll just like 10x your salary and work with better people and work on things that people use and like all these things

[译文] [Gabriel]: 举个非常非常清晰的例子。我有个瑞典朋友，他拿着一份普通的瑞典薪水，按旧金山（SF）的标准看极低，但按他的标准看还不错，对吧？他在瑞典过得挺滋润，大概比普通薪水高 50%。我跟他说过很多次：“哥们，你为什么不申请去旧金山？我是说，你的薪水能翻 10 倍，还能和更优秀的人共事，做大家都在用的产品，等等所有这些好处。”

[原文] [Gabriel]: and one day I just introduced him to a company and I was like yeah fuck it i just put these two together and make sure he starts interviews and when you start interviews that's way more simple because they will like try to pull you into the company right so they will do it there's momentum

[译文] [Gabriel]: 直到有一天，我直接把他介绍给了一家公司。我想：“去他的，我就把这两人拉到一起，确保他开始面试。” 一旦你开始面试，事情就简单多了，因为公司会试图把你拉进去，对吧？所以他们会推动流程，这就有了势能（momentum）。

[原文] [Gabriel]: anyway yeah this friend just ended up 10xing his salary just like that and you know he pushed this for like I told him maybe for a year or so so if he 10x is his salary I mean that's a lot of money just by coming to America or getting a job with America that's like a full house in Sweden he just got People don't understand how much he lose from this he literally lost buying a house in Sweden if you just see it in like just currency right he lost a house just because he didn't take he didn't do this very simple thing which is applying San Francisco it's very simple

[译文] [Gabriel]: 总之，是的，这个朋友最终薪水真的翻了 10 倍，就这么简单。你知道吗，他拖延了大概一年，我跟他说了一年。如果薪水翻 10 倍，我是说这可是一大笔钱。仅仅是来美国或者找份美国的工作，这相当于瑞典的一整栋房子。人们不明白他（因拖延）损失了多少。如果你只看金钱，他实际上损失了一栋瑞典的房子，仅仅因为他没有做这件非常简单的事——申请旧金山的工作。这真的很简单。

[原文] [Sigil]: what's your advice for people who want to come to San Francisco why should they come to San Francisco why should they come to America

[译文] [Sigil]: 对于那些想来旧金山的人，你有什么建议？他们为什么要来旧金山？为什么要来美国？

[原文] [Gabriel]: first of all I mean let's start simple the talent density is much higher you'll work with a very high concentration of talented people and the salary will be much higher like whatever you like want in life you know your life standard will always depend on your salary

[译文] [Gabriel]: 首先，我们简单点说，人才密度（talent density）要高得多。你会与一群高度集中的天才共事，而且薪水会高得多。无论你在生活中想要什么，你知道，你的生活标准总是取决于你的薪水。

[原文] [Gabriel]: and I mean look at what has come out from Silicon Valley i mean nearly all innovation happens here like it's you know so much like probably more than all of Europe combined happens in San Francisco the amount of capital in only San Francisco is probably like magnitude higher than in all of Europe together right now

[译文] [Gabriel]: 看看硅谷产出了什么。我是说，几乎所有的创新都发生在这里。你知道，这甚至可能比整个欧洲加起来还要多。仅仅旧金山的资本总量，可能就比现在整个欧洲加起来还要高出一个数量级。

[原文] [Gabriel]: like one more thing that I thought about which was a huge blocker for me when I was back in Sweden and I wanted to do all these things and I think a lot of people who were thinking similarly as I did are feeling this as well and that's that they think they're not very smart i remember I thought I was an idiot growing up

[译文] [Gabriel]: 还有一件事，我回想起来，这曾是我在瑞典想做所有这些事时的一个巨大阻碍，我想很多像我一样思考的人也有同感——那就是他们认为自己不够聪明。我记得我成长过程中一直觉得自己是个白痴。

[原文] [Gabriel]: but I think it's like really easy to underestimate how much you can do it's super easy to underestimate and like probably people even just listening to this are in the top like 1 percentile people just from listening to this like most people wouldn't have agency to like oh I want to do something and then spend an hour listening on something to do that thing you're already top 1%

[译文] [Gabriel]: 但我认为人们真的很容易低估自己能做到的事情，超级容易低估。实际上，可能仅仅是正在收听这个访谈的人，就已经属于前 1% 的人群了。仅仅是因为他们在听这个。因为大多数人并没有这种能动性（agency）——那种“噢我想做某事，然后花一个小时去听相关内容来学习”的能动性。你已经是前 1% 了。

[原文] [Gabriel]: so you only that should should should make it connected dots like okay if I just continue down this path this is where I end up yeah you can come back to San Francisco work at a top company or start a top company and yeah so much things to be done

[译文] [Gabriel]: 所以，仅凭这一点，你就应该把点连成线：“好吧，如果我继续沿着这条路走下去，这就是我的终点。” 是的，你可以来到旧金山，在顶尖公司工作，或者创办一家顶尖公司。是的，还有好多事情可以做。

[原文] [Sigil]: yeah well this has been great Gabriel thank you so much for your time I mean yeah thanks for inviting me holy shit I think you're one of the best people at learning in the world with AI and more people should know about that

[译文] [Sigil]: 是的，这太棒了 Gabriel，非常感谢你的时间。我是说，真的，我觉得你是世界上最擅长利用 AI 学习的人之一，更多人应该知道这一点。

[Gabriel]: 谢谢邀请，天哪。

[原文] [Gabriel]: yeah I'm trying and I hope some people get you know much better than I do so I can learn from them as

[译文] [Gabriel]: 是的，我在努力。我也希望有些人能变得比我更厉害，这样我就能反过来向他们学习了。