章节 1：公关传播的觉醒与“气场”的力量

📝 本节摘要：

本节介绍了访谈的背景。主持人 Jack Altman 将 Lulu Cheng Meservey 誉为初创企业公关领域的顶尖专家。双方探讨了公关传播（Comms）为何在近年来愈发受到重视。Lulu 指出，传播能力是人类能力的最后堡垒，是 AI 无法取代的领域。她认为，现代创始人正通过模式识别发现，拥有强大“气场（Aura）”、良好声誉和忠实追随者的公司在人才招聘和市场竞争中更具优势。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: the thing that I have extremely high confidence in is that comms is the final bastion of human ability where 10 years from now 50 years from now the ability to persuade and win over and make other people fall in love for other humans will still be uniquely human.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我非常有信心的一点是，公关传播（comms）是人类能力的最后堡垒。无论是10年后还是50年后，说服他人、赢得人心以及让人们对他人产生好感的能力，仍将是人类所独有的。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: i'm really happy to be here with Lulu today lulu I was just asking you before like what's the right way to introduce you the way I would describe you is like a startup whisperer for comms behind like you know amazing companies amazing investors.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 今天我很高兴能和 Lulu 聚在一起。Lulu，我刚才还在问你，该如何恰当地介绍你。我对你的描述就像是公关传播领域的“初创企业低语者（startup whisperer）”，隐藏在那些优秀的初创公司和杰出的投资者背后。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: i don't actually know the full scope of how you do what you do and what it all is but um it's really incredible and uh you're one of the most thoughtful people on how people communicate position things and so I'm really excited to talk about this and learn from you today.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我其实并不完全了解你工作的全部范畴以及它具体包含什么，但它确实非常了不起。你是那些在沟通交流和定位事物（positioning）方面最有见地的人之一，所以我非常期待今天的交流并向你学习。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: thank you yeah I'm stoked.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 谢谢，是的，我也很兴奋。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: why has comm's been having like the moment that it's been having and um I feel like in the last few years people have started like understanding what it is better and dissecting it and applying it and being more thoughtful.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 为什么公关传播（comms）最近一直处于这种“高光时刻”？我觉得在过去的几年里，人们开始更好地理解它是什么，对其进行剖析、应用，并且思考得更深。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: i think com has started to get paid more which is appropriate i think you can really feel it online the companies that have it nailed the ones that don't but like why has it become more of a thing in recent years seemingly.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我认为传播人员的薪酬也开始上涨了，这是理所应当的。我觉得在网上你能明显感觉到，哪些公司做得很好，哪些公司没做到。但为什么近年来它似乎变得如此重要呢？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: I think we're all just pattern recognition machines and when we're seeing that the companies where the founders have the most aura and the companies that have built these impressive cults and the companies that have the best reputations are getting the best people and are winning and are worth the most then the founders coming up say I want to do that too.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我认为我们都只是模式识别（pattern recognition）机器。当我们看到那些创始人最有“气场（aura）”、建立了令人印象深刻的“崇拜团体（cults）”且声誉最好的公司，能够吸引到最优秀的人才、赢得竞争并拥有最高估值时，新兴的创始人就会说我也想这样做。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: it feels like even though so like even that word aura I feel like there have been more of these lately where I'm like there's cracked kids and there's like we have a lot of aura and there's like vibes and it seems to me maybe this is always happening but it feels more lately that people are more attuned to these words and these positions and what's the energy of the company and the thing is that does it feel like that to you.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 感觉就像是，哪怕是“气场（aura）”这个词，我觉得最近出现的频率也更高了，比如“天才少年（cracked kids）”，或者“我们很有气场”，还有“氛围（vibes）”。在我看来，也许这种现象一直存在，但最近人们似乎对这些词汇、这些定位以及公司的能量状态更加敏感了。你也有同感吗？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: yeah and it's actually um handinhand with people caring more about comms and how they're perceived like aura is code for how good of a communicator you are.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 是的，这实际上与人们更加关注公关传播（comms）以及他们如何被感知是息息相关的。比如，“气场（aura）”其实就是你沟通能力优劣的代号。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: you you can't be bumbling your way through a sentence and not able to describe what your company does and then still have aura as a founder that's very difficult.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 作为一名创始人，你不能在说话时含混不清，连公司是做什么的都描述不清楚，却还能拥有“气场”，那是非常困难的。

章节 2：声誉塑造的大战略：从目标出发

📝 本节摘要：

本节深入探讨了构建企业声誉的系统性逻辑。Lulu 指出，成功的声誉并非偶然，而是基于对目标的深刻理解。她认为，公关不应仅仅停留于拍精美视频或找网红等表面功夫，而应是一种“大战略（Grand Strategy）”。创始人需要从成千上万的真实属性中，精准挑选出那些能服务于宏大愿景（如重塑软件工程或实现超人工智能）且受众关心的信息。这种战略性思考将决定公司是该频繁发推，还是该通过举办竞赛、甚至拒绝某些机会来建立独特的市场地位,。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so I I think that people are just seeing the pattern that the people with stronger reputations that other people think more highly of and are more impressed with are the winners and they're trying to figure out ways to recreate that.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以我认为人们只是看到了一种模式：那些拥有更强声誉、更受他人推崇和青睐的人往往是赢家，因此他们正试图寻找重现这种模式的方法。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and so some are trying to do it with these cinematic videos and some are trying to do it with various forms of aura farming some are hiring online influencers which I'm a little bit ignowed by but everyone's trying to approach it in in these different ways.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 因此，有些人尝试通过这些电影感十足的视频来实现，有些人尝试各种形式的“气场收割（aura farming）”，还有些人在聘请网络红人（online influencers）——对此我感到有点不适，但每个人都在尝试用这些不同的方式来处理。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: but there actually is time-tested grand strategy for how to curate a reputation if you take a holistic approach it is like you start with what are you trying to achieve.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 但实际上，关于如何通过整体的方法来策划声誉，是有一种经受过时间考验的大战略（grand strategy）的。这就像是你首先要从“你想要实现什么目标”开始。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and it it's not what I want to try to achieve is people love me and think I'm great what I want to try to achieve is to uh save the US military innovation future by equipping them in the right way or to build the software engineer of the future or to uh build super intelligence right.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这个目标并不是“我想让人们爱我、觉得我很棒”，而是“我想通过正确的方式武装美国军队来拯救其创新的未来”，或者是“打造未来的软件工程师”，或者是“构建超人工智能（super intelligence）”，对吧？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and that's what I want to achieve and as a means to that end what do people need to know about me obviously it has to be true but out of the set of 10,000 things that could be true what are the things that people care about and that are useful for this project.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这就是我想要实现的。作为实现这一目标的手段，人们需要了解我什么？显然，这些信息必须是真实的，但在成千上万个可能真实的事情中，哪些是人们关心的，并且是对这个项目有用的？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and so thinking about it through those terms sometimes it'll lead you to doing the standard checklist of like video influencer tweet a lot whatever but sometimes it'll lead you to launch a fellowship program host a competition turn down certain opportunities you know it it might actually be um outside of distribution compared to what you you're seeing other people do.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 按照这些条款去思考，有时会引导你去完成标准清单（standard checklist），比如拍视频、找网红、发大量推文等等；但有时它会引导你去启动一个奖学金计划、举办一场竞赛，或者拒绝某些机会。你知道，与你看到别人做的相比，这实际上可能超出了常规的传播范式（distribution）。

章节 3：传播的核心要素——“内容”与“方式”重于“渠道”

📝 本节摘要：

这一章节探讨了公关传播中常被忽视的底层逻辑。Lulu 提出了一个深刻的观点：相比于在“哪里”发布（Where），传播的“内容”（What）和“表现方式”（How）更为重要。她引用了“沃尔多（Waldo）”的漫画作为比喻，指出人们往往过度关注上哪个播客，却忽视了如何让内容本身更具吸引力。此外，两人还讨论了创始人的“磁场（Magnetism）”和“信念感（Conviction）”如何通过直觉层面的好感赢得支持，并指出这种能让人们“爱上”并愿意随之冲锋陷阵的人类特质，是 AI 无法取代的。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: when you think about like the most successful comms either just campaigns or chapters or people or companies is it more about clarity in what they say or is it more about like the way they say it and what the personality that they show as they do those things cuz you know like I think having a clear mission and clear articulation is really good but we can all think of these examples where like many companies are all basically saying the same thing but for some reason everybody wants this one to win and then when people want this one to win it becomes easier for them to win it's like what is Yeah what's the balance here.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 当你思考那些最成功的公关案例时——无论是公关活动、特定阶段，还是个人或公司——你认为这更多是关于他们所说内容的清晰度（clarity），还是关于他们表达的方式（the way they say it）以及他们在做这些事时展现出的个性？因为我觉得，拥有清晰的使命和表达是非常好的，但我们都能想到一些例子，很多公司基本上都在说同样的话，但出于某种原因，大家都希望其中某一家赢。而当人们希望它赢时，它就更容易赢。那么，这两者之间的平衡点在哪里？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: yeah so two things the what and the how are both more useful and important than the where uh have you seen this comic of Waldo sitting at a bar and he's looking sad and he's got a drink and the caption is nobody ever asks how is Waldo.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 是的，有两点：“内容（what）”和“方式（how）”都比“渠道（where）”更有用、更重要。你看过那个漫画吗？沃尔多（Waldo）坐在酒吧里，神情忧郁地喝着酒，标题写着：“从来没有人问过沃尔多过得怎么样（how is Waldo）”。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i love that everybody is always saying which podcast can we go on nobody ever asks how do we get people interested once we're there so the what and the how are both important.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我很喜欢那个梗。每个人总是在问：“我们可以上哪个播客？”却没有人问：“一旦我们上了节目，该如何让人们对我们产生兴趣？”所以，“内容”和“方式”都非常重要。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i will say one thing that people probably underrate is that if people just like you in their gut they will figure out ways to try to help you be successful and they will kind of reccon to themselves the thing that they heard and how compelling it was and they'll just like help you inside their own mind.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我想说的一点是，人们可能低估了这样一种情况：如果人们在直觉上（in their gut）就喜欢你，他们就会想方设法帮助你获得成功；他们会在脑海中对自己听到的内容进行某种“事后合理化（reccon）”，认为它非常动人，并在内心深处支持你。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: yeah it's like one of the founder archetypes I think about a lot is not like you know there's there's many intersecting things that are very valuable like there can be visionaries and there can be deeply technical people but there's also this type or this characteristic that can overlay where people are just so magnetic so likable so just pure seeming whatever where just the whole world wants to see them win and I think I don't know what that is but that seems like a very important thing here.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 是的，这就像我经常思考的一种创始人原型（archetype）。虽然有很多交叉特质都非常有价值，比如远见卓识的人或技术极其精湛的人，但还有一种特质可以覆盖在这些之上：有些人就是极具磁场（magnetic）、极其讨人喜欢、看起来极其纯粹，以至于全世界都希望看到他们赢。我不知道那具体是什么，但在这种情境下它似乎非常重要。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: a lot of it is pure honest conviction and confidence this is what you You and I can't get through a conversation without talking about Napoleon so we'll get to that but some of it is if you just have complete confidence that this thing that you're doing is right and you're going to win and it's inevitable and you just simply share that with people they will feel that emanating from you and it's very hard to resist.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这在很大程度上源于纯粹且诚实的信念感（conviction）和自信。这就是为什么你我之间的谈话总离不开拿破仑（Napoleon），我们稍后会谈到他。但其中一部分原因在于，如果你对自己正在做的事情是正确的、你终将获胜且这是不可阻挡的有着完全的信心，并且你只是单纯地向人们分享这一点，他们就能感受到你身上散发出的这种能量，而这是很难抗拒的。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and this is true in the past when people have had to run into a storm of bullets in order to achieve this thing that you've told them must happen and will happen or today if people need to leave their jobs and come you know turn their lives upside down to work with you.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 过去是这样，当人们为了实现你告诉他们“必须发生且一定会发生”的事情而不得不冲进枪林弹雨时；现在也是这样，当人们需要辞掉工作、彻底改变生活来追随你工作时。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so I I think some of it is just like another human being telling you with complete confidence and conviction that this is the thing that is going to happen and that's the thing that AI will not be able to take away from us.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以我认为，其中的一部分就是由另一个人类以完全的信心和信念告诉你，这就是即将发生的事情。而这正是人工智能（AI）无法从我们身上夺走的东西。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: we'll see but but you know AI will be smarter and better than us in many ways and people who deny that are just coping a lot of these like AI can already do better than me but it needs me doing it's like no you're just asking for a DI program for yourself as a human you know like like um AI can do better but for convincing other humans I think will always take humans i think that actually communication will be the skill that humans need.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 走着瞧吧，但你知道，AI 在很多方面都会比我们更聪明、更出色，否认这一点的人只是在自我心理安慰（coping）。很多人会说：“AI 已经能做得比我好，但它需要我来操作。”不，你只是在为身为人类的自己争取某种“多元平等包容（DEI）项目”。AI 确实可以做得更好，但对于说服其他人类（convincing other humans），我认为永远需要人类。我认为沟通交流实际上将是人类最需要的技能。

章节 4：叙事弧线——掌控故事的起伏与预期

📝 本节摘要：

本节讨论了叙事（Storytelling）的科学结构。Lulu 指出，所有伟大的故事都遵循从“问题”到“解决”的弧线。虽然叙事弧线的发展有其客观规律，但创始人拥有一定的“代理权（Agency）”，可以引导公众感知公司目前处于弧线的哪个位置——是正在崛起、即将迎来巅峰，还是已经走过辉煌。她强调，成功的公司需要不断创造新的“紧张点（Tension point）”来开启新的叙事弧线，就像技术增长的 S 曲线一样，通过多重弧线的叠加来维持长期的吸引力和增长预期。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: when you start work on helping a company position itself or get its brand right and you think about stories what goes into that for you and so like you know what I'm imagining is I got to like tour the like Pixar studio one time and like meet some of the people there and it's like the thoughtfulness and the deconstruction of a great story is just such a science and I'm wondering if you could break down what's the what are the lenses or the attributes of a great story in tech.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 当你开始着手帮助一家公司进行定位（positioning）或塑造品牌，并思考“故事”时，你的切入点是什么？我一直在想，我有一次去皮克斯（Pixar）工作室参观并见到了那里的一些人，那种对伟大故事的周密思考和拆解简直就像一门科学。我在想，你能不能拆解一下，在科技领域，一个伟大故事的视角或特质是什么？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: every great story has a problem and a resolution and the way people think about where you're headed from here is um by thinking about where you are on that curve you know what goes up must come down um pride comes before the fall darkest before the dawn we have all of these different phrases for things.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 每个伟大的故事都有一个“问题（problem）”和一个“解决（resolution）”。人们判断你未来走向的方式，是通过思考你目前处于那条曲线的哪个位置。你知道，“升上去的必然会降下来”、“骄兵必败”、“黎明前最黑暗”，我们对这些事物有各种不同的表述方式。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: meeting a resolution is the same way that supposedly Eskimos have so many words for snow it's because we have this deep deep attachment and commitment to seeing stories through so we assume in our heart that every story has to have a problem that then gets resolved somehow.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 迎来结局（resolution）就像传闻中爱斯基摩人对“雪”有那么多词汇一样；这是因为我们内心深处对“看完故事”有着极深的执念和承诺，所以我们直觉地认为每个故事都必须有一个问题，然后以某种方式得到解决。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and if someone flies too close to the sun they have to come crashing down to earth and if it doesn't happen if the story was Icarus then flew happily away it's not a story or if somebody crashes down and doesn't make their way back up if we were to see a movie like that we would not be able to sleep people would hate that movie and not know why it's like this uncanny valley of a story that was kind of head in the right direction but didn't quite get to the other side.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 如果有人飞得离太阳太近，他们就必须坠落回地面。如果这没有发生——如果伊卡洛斯（Icarus）的故事是他随后快乐地飞走了——那就不成其为故事。或者如果有人坠落了却没能东山再起，如果我们看这样一部电影，我们会睡不着觉，人们会讨厌那部电影却不知道为什么。这就像是故事的“恐怖谷（uncanny valley）”，方向是对的，但没能到达彼岸。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and so every story has that arc um a narrative arc is literally an arc it goes one direction and then it comes back the other direction the way this is relevant for founders is you need to help people understand where you are on that arc and where the arc is headed.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以每个故事都有那种弧线（arc）。叙事弧线（narrative arc）字面上就是一条弧线：它向一个方向延展，然后向另一个方向回转。这与创始人的关联在于，你需要帮助人们理解你目前处于这条弧线的什么位置，以及这条弧线将走向何方。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: you don't get to choose that there's an arc and that people will think there's an up and a down and a start and a beginning middle end but you you get some agency in where people think you are on the ark.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 你无法选择“是否存在弧线”，人们总会认为故事有起伏、有开端、有发展、有结局。但是，在“人们认为你处于弧线的哪个位置”这一点上，你拥有一定的主动权（agency）。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and if people think that you have crested or you've already hit the apex and your past days are behind you then they assume that you must be coming back down or if people feel that you're actually just hitting the knee of the curve to go up then they assume that some greatness awaits in the future you So so you get to choose are you um on this kind of an arc where you've already passed Yeah the the apex there's always an arc yes or do you get to choose whether you're on this part of an arc and you've come through struggles and you're destined for greatness.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 如果人们认为你已经登顶，或者已经达到了顶点（apex），辉煌已成过去，那么他们就会认定你必然在走下坡路。反之，如果人们觉得你正处于曲线向上拐点（knee of the curve），那么他们就会认定未来有伟业在等着你。所以，你可以选择：你是处于已经越过顶点的这种弧线上吗？（没错，总会有一条弧线的）还是说，你可以选择让自己处于弧线的这一部分——即你已经历过磨难，注定要走向卓越？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so what is the ark where are you on the ark and people will fill in the rest of where they assume you're going to go and where you deserve to go.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以，弧线是什么？你处于弧线的什么位置？人们会自动脑补剩下的部分，即他们认为你会走向哪里，以及你“配得上”走向哪里。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: i guess also companies need multiple arcs of course and so you think about the companies that have gone really far there have probably been so many minor and major arcs and resolutions and then there's a new tension that's created and resolved and I guess that's a big part of it too it's like you almost need to create the next tension point for the next story.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我猜公司也需要多重弧线，那是肯定的。所以当你想到那些走得很远的公司，它们可能经历过无数的大小弧线和阶段性结局，然后又产生并解决了新的紧张点（tension point）。我想这也是很重要的一部分：你几乎需要为下一个故事创造下一个紧张点。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: it's sort of like the S- curves of technological adoption you know there's you can be on one S-curve but you know that there's others coming you know that there's a there's a bigger arc it's sort of like in um what was oh Men in Black where there's like a universe in the universe and another universe or like the stock market where there's the zigzags every day but then you can zoom out to the month or the year and then um over the decades like each of the ups and downs are part of some bigger up and down.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这有点像技术采用的 S 曲线（S-curves）。你可能正处于一条 S 曲线上，但你知道还会有其他的曲线出现；你知道存在一条更大的弧线。这有点像《黑衣人》（Men in Black）里的情节，宇宙之中还有宇宙，宇宙之外还有宇宙。或者像股市一样，每天都有波动，但你可以放大到月度或年度视角，然后在几十年的跨度下，每一次起伏都是更大波动的一部分。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: the point of this for founders is just you if you know that people think this way then you have to be really conscious about where you are positioning yourself on those arcs because people will judge you by that and that's um it'll shape their expectations on if you're headed up or down.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 对创始人来说，关键点在于：如果你知道人们是这样思考的，那么你就必须非常自觉地在这些弧线上为自己定位。因为人们会据此评判你，这会塑造他们对你是在走上坡路还是下坡路的预期。

章节 5：声誉稳态点——如何利用“被低估”的力量

📝 本节摘要：

本节引入了声誉的“稳态点（Homeostatic Set Point）”概念。Lulu 指出，公众对公司的评价存在一种类似体温的调节机制：当公司被视为“被高估（Overrated）”时，公众倾向于打压；而“被低估（Underrated）”则是一种赞美，能激发人们填补认知差距、主动为其正名的动力。创始人应追求成为“大声疾呼的被低估者”，通过设定高远的稳态点并展示当前的相对位置，确立“最好的日子还在后头”的预期。她以 Shopify 高管变动引发股价上涨为例，证明了声誉重塑能让公司瞬间从“平庸”变为“被低估”，从而产生巨大的市场溢价。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: imagine that people's opinion of you is like a living thing... and imagine that that living thing has a homeostatic set point.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 想象一下，人们对你的看法就像一个活生生的生物……想象这个生物有一个“稳态点（homeostatic set point）”。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: if it's above that then the body will regulate to bring the temperature down if it's below that regulate to bring it up... the way this translates to the story is people have an assumption of the level of celebration you deserve.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 如果体温高于这个点，身体就会调节以降低温度；如果低于这个点，就会调节以升高温度……这转化到故事中就是：人们对你“值得被赞美到什么程度”有一个预设。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: if you're above that people think you're overrated and they want to bring you down and they don't like you if they perceive that you're below that then you're underrated like underrated is a compliment.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 如果你表现出的状态高于那个点，人们会认为你“被高估（overrated）”了，他们会想把你拉下来，甚至讨厌你；如果他们察觉你低于那个点，那么你就是“被低估（underrated）”的——而“被低估”其实是一种赞美。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: overrated is an insult you would think that being highly rated is good but overrated is not so people want to fill that delta if they think you're underrated they'll try to bring you up.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: “被高估”是一种侮辱。你可能认为获得高度评价是好事，但“被高估”绝非好事。人们想要填补那个差值（delta）：如果他们认为你被低估了，他们会努力把你捧上去。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: this is what people have been saying about Google Gemini it's underrated... people feel good when they make that point yeah they're like I'm pointing this out so I'm I'm writing some kind of wrong in the universe i'm filling that out.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这就是人们最近对 Google Gemini 的评价——它被低估了……当人们提出这一点时，他们感觉很好，就像在说：“我指出了这一点，所以我正在纠正宇宙中的某种错误，我在填补那个认知空缺。”

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: we're all kind of reputational Karens... when you are the founder and you want people to think of you well you want people to think that you're underrated because you want people to think that your true value is even higher than the market is placing on you right now.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我们在声誉评估方面都像某种“凯伦（Karens，指爱管闲事纠偏的人）”……当你作为创始人并希望人们对你有好感时，你希望人们认为你“被低估”了，因为你希望人们相信你的真实价值甚至比市场目前给出的还要高。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: where a founder would go wrong would be if you are saying um our mission is to do this thing and we are achieving it then people are like oh have you already you you were meant to go here and now you're here like so... choosing what the natural end point is and then choosing how to show people where you are relative to that.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 创始人容易犯错的地方在于，如果你说“我们的使命是做这件事，而且我们正在实现它”，那么人们会觉得：“哦，你已经达到了吗？你原本打算到这里，现在你已经到了。”所以……关键在于选择那个“自然的终点”，并向人们展示你相对于那个终点所处的位置。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: it's an interesting balance where you were trying to in a weird sense be very loudly underrated or something like that.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 这是一种有趣的平衡，在某种奇妙的意义上，你是在努力成为一个“大声疾呼的被低估者”之类的角色。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: my friend Cass who used to be president of Shopify went to go run the company and things have been bumping overnight because people are just optimistic about where the new natural set point for the company is... the pretty significant jump in the stock was based on trusting him liking him believing that he can get it done.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我的朋友 Cass（Shopify 前总裁）去管理另一家公司（指 OpenAI），股价一夜之间大涨，因为人们对这家公司新的“自然稳态点”感到乐观……股价的显著上涨是基于对他的信任、喜爱以及相信他能把事情办成的信念。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and then all of a sudden it was underrated all of a sudden it was underrated undervalued that's right.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 于是突然之间，它就变得“被低估”了。没错，突然之间它就变成了被低估、被看轻的状态。

章节 6：传播的底层动力学——“流动与存量”及“三圆叠加”模型

📝 本节摘要：

本节介绍了公关传播的两大评估维度：“流动（Flow）”关注长期的叙事轨迹和预期，“存量（Stock）”则关注当下的具体内容输出。Lulu 进一步提出了筛选传播内容的“三圆模型”，即寻找“真实性（True）”、“相关性（Relevant）”与“战略价值（Strategic/Helpful）”的交集。她通过一个“AI 私人导师”的创业案例，演示了如何过滤掉那些虽然真实且相关、但对业务目标无益的干扰项。同时，她驳斥了“所有流量都是好流量”的观点，强调缺乏战略性的病毒式传播可能会损害品牌长期建立的信任与独特性。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: There's a whole other lens that you've spoken about that you know is if what we just described is sort of like the flow of the up and down there's another lens you've talked about with like circles in storytelling and like that that's more like the stock of where you're at can you talk about that.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 你还谈到了另一个维度。如果说我们刚才描述的是一种波动的“流动（flow）”，那么你提到的关于叙事中“圆圈”的视角，则更像是你所处位置的“存量（stock）”。你能聊聊这个吗？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: yeah yeah I think about flow and stock so like um flow is more like a trajectory of where are you going and and drawing out the long arc for people and telling them what to expect and stock is more like at this moment in time what do you say.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 是的，我会思考“流动”与“存量”。“流动”更像是一个关于你要去往何方的轨迹，为人们勾勒出长期的弧线，并告诉他们应该期待什么；而“存量”则更像是：在此时此刻，你要说些什么。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: okay a bad recipe for this is what sounds good what's going to get the most engagement um good recipe for this is based on what I'm trying to achieve what is the circle of things that are true and then what is the circle of things that are relevant and interesting and then what are the circle circle of things that are strategic or helpful to the business.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 好吧，一个糟糕的传播配方是“什么听起来好听”或“什么能获得最高互动”；而一个好的配方则是基于我想要实现的目标，去寻找三个圆圈的交集：一是“真实（true）”的事物，二是“相关且有趣（relevant and interesting）”的事物，三是对业务有“战略意义或帮助（strategic or helpful）”的事物。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: let's say um that we're starting a what company should we start an AI personal tutor okay we're starting an AI personal tutor and uh the circle of things that are true about us are that we have um we have discovered that one-on-one tutoring u immediately puts you in the 99th percentile of student results and that it's worked throughout history there are military studies that confirm this and that people want this for their children because uh there's so much controversy about schools being a mess um and there's facts about Jack is a repeat founder who you would be the CEO how chief staff and so like Jack is a repeat founder and uh has scaled and grown companies and and has seen these and and has children of his own he's a father.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 假设我们要创办一家公司，创办什么好呢？AI 私人导师吧。好，我们正在创办一家 AI 私人导师公司。关于我们“真实”的圆圈是：我们发现一对一辅导能让学生的成绩立刻跃升至前 1%，这在历史上屡试不爽，甚至有军事研究证实了这一点；而且人们希望为孩子获得这种服务，因为目前的学校系统一团糟，争议很大。此外还有一些事实，比如 Jack 是一位连续创业者（你来当 CEO，我当幕僚长），他曾规模化地运营和发展公司，并亲身经历过这些，而且他自己也有孩子，是一位父亲。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: then the circle of things that are relevant to today are everybody's excited about AI looking for real use cases and and solid business models um that the education system is in high controversy and tumult and that this next cohort of kids who are now in K through 12 are going to graduate into a world where AGI has made it very unpredictable how they're going to make a living.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 接着，与当下“相关”的圆圈是：每个人都对 AI 感到兴奋，正在寻找真实的用例和稳健的商业模式；教育系统正处于巨大的争议和动荡中；以及现在这批 K-12（基础教育阶段）的孩子们，将来毕业时会面临一个由通用人工智能（AGI）驱动、职业前景变得极其难以预测的世界。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and then the circle of things that are helpful to the business are like easy to use we partner well with schools we can layer on top of traditional schooling you don't have to go full homeschooling in order to use us.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 然后，对业务“有帮助”的圆圈是：产品易于使用、我们与学校合作良好、我们可以叠加在传统学校教育之上，你不需要为了使用我们而完全放弃学校教育转为居家办公（homeschooling）。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: in order for us to decide like you're going on uh a podcast today and how are you going to describe the business we would want to look at the overlap between all three of these circles.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 为了决定，比如你今天要去参加一个播客，该如何描述这项业务，我们需要找到这三个圆圈的重叠部分。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so there are things that might be true and relevant um but not helpful so maybe it is true that you what's your what's one of your hobbies on here music yeah like you're really into music and um it is relevant because there's some study that music helps with neuroplasticity in in young children and helps to form a stronger brain but we're not ready to offer that product yet and if we advertise it it doesn't actually help us right now.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以，有些事情可能既真实又相关，但并没有什么帮助。比如你可能真的对音乐很感兴趣（这是“真实”的），而且这也很“相关”，因为有研究表明音乐有助于幼儿的神经塑造并让大脑更强壮，但我们还没准备好提供相关产品，如果我们现在宣传它，其实对业务目前没有帮助。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: there's this question of like is all press good press and like we could say something right now if I said say something to just try to make this next 60-second clip do the rounds don't worry about any other variable just do the rounds with the next 60 seconds you could say something nuts and make sure that this clip went viral but that doesn't necessarily help and I'm curious actually your take on this specifically of this like all press is good press thing because this is like you know taking this circles analogy this is basically saying if I'm just going to go nuts on relevance I'm going to drop the other stuff.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 这里涉及到一个问题：“所有的报道都是好的报道吗？”比如我们现在就可以说点什么，如果我说“咱们想办法让接下来的 60 秒剪辑火出圈，别管其他变量，只要这 60 秒能疯传就行”，你可以说一些疯狂的话来确保视频走红，但这未必有帮助。我其实很好奇你对“所有报道都是好报道”这种观点的看法。因为按照你这个圆圈类比，这基本上意味着为了追求极高的“相关性（话题度）”而抛弃了其他维度。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i think based on your framework you're actually kind of implying it's not you could potentially super handicap yourself in the future so imagine that you're saying something that is true about you and it is relevant but it is not useful to say.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我想基于你的框架，你实际上是在暗示这并非好事——你可能会在未来给自己造成巨大的障碍。想象一下，你说的某件事确实是真的，也很有话题度，但说出来对业务并无益处。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: there's a lot of controversy about is it useful for clue clue to say cheat on everything and then they're explaining well cheating isn't technically cheating when we it's a very valid question to ask is that useful for the business because now you have distribution and and let's say you reach millions of people and you've told those millions of people that your ethos is cheating... well if the business is let us record your screen and trust us with your data then it might not necessarily be.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 比如关于 Clue（注：指某公司）说“在一切事情上作弊（cheat on everything）”是否有效存在很多争议，然后他们解释说技术上这不叫作弊。一个非常值得思考的问题是：这对业务有益吗？因为你确实获得了分发量，触达了数百万人，但你告诉这数百万人你的企业特质（ethos）是“作弊”……如果你的业务是“让我们记录你的屏幕并信任我们处理你的数据”，那么这显然是没好处的。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i think anything is doable but it is hard especially if it's something that accrves to personality and trust... it's harder to pivot who people think you are as a person because either um you're flighty and fickle you know as as an adult or something doesn't add up and something wasn't true before.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我认为任何事情都是可行的，但很难，尤其是涉及到性格特征和信任的积累时……改变人们对你个人形象的认知更加困难，因为这要么会让你显得轻浮反复，要么会让人们觉得有些事情对不上号，或者你以前说的话并不真实。

章节 7：真实性与人格特质的“信号放大”

📝 本节摘要：

本节深入探讨了创始人“真实性”与“公众形象”之间的动态平衡。Lulu 强调公关不应是伪造人设，而应是挖掘并强化创始人真实存在的特质（如“实验室里的技术天才”），以避免因为人设不符而产生令人不安的“恐怖谷（Uncanny Valley）”效应。她引用沃尔特·李普曼（Walter Lippmann）的理论指出，世界过于复杂，公众需要经过压缩的“模型”来认知他人。因此，创始人必须像上镜前涂抹浓妆的播音员一样，有意识地放大其真实特质中的特定子集，以便在信息过载的世界中建立清晰的个人品牌标识。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: Here's an interesting question do you feel like who people are from a comm's perspective is what it is and you're basically just trying to expose the truth more or are you more of the view that we can actually position somebody like when you work with somebody are you like in your head are you like you're actually this way but we're going to make you seem this way a little bit more or are you like we're going to expose true attributes about you but we can only work within the confines of what's true about you.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 这是一个有趣的问题：你认为从公关传播（comm's）的角度来看，一个人的形象是天生定型的，你只是在努力揭露更多真相吗？还是说，你认为我们实际上可以对某人进行“定位（position）”？比如当你和某人合作时，你心里会想：“你实际上是这样的，但我们要让你看起来更像那样”；还是说，你会想：“我们要揭示你真实的特质，但我们只能在你真实属性的范围内运作”？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i think more the latter i think there are different archetypes of people but um you got to lean into the thing that you are and it's like Charlie Mer said you can always invert like everything has two sides and so if someone is more remote and more cold um and they're not like the warm and fuzzy type with people to try to position them as that because you think people want a manager that has empathy is just hard it's it's it's going to come across uncanny valley where it's like I see what you're saying but I don't feel it.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我认为更倾向于后者。我觉得人有不同的原型（archetypes），但你必须向你真实的自我靠拢。就像查理·芒格（Charlie Munger）说的，你总可以进行“逆向思考（invert）”——万事都有两面性。如果某人性格比较疏离、高冷，并不是那种待人温和亲切的类型，如果你非要因为觉得人们想要一个有同理心的管理者而把他定位成那样，那会非常困难。这会产生一种“恐怖谷（uncanny valley）”效应，人们会觉得：“我听到了你说的，但我感受不到。”

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: whereas if you actually lean into this is a technical genius who is in the lab cooking up something amazing and you can be part of this team you'll attract people who want that and that's actually the right thing long term.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 反之，如果你真实地展现出：“这是一个正在实验室里酿造惊人成果的技术天才，你可以成为这个团队的一员”，你就会吸引那些追求这种氛围的人，从长期来看这才是正确的做法。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: what you don't want to do is bait and switch someone into joining the company for example because they think that they're working for this type of guy and then that guy just doesn't actually show up to work he was only on the podcast.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 你最不该做的就是“诱导转向（bait and switch）”，比如让人因为觉得是在为某种类型的老板工作而加入公司，结果发现那个人根本不来上班，他只存在于播客里。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: you basically have to lean into authenticity but you can choose which parts of somebody's overall shape to emphasize.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 所以你基本上必须坚持真实性（authenticity），但你可以选择强调某人整体形象中的哪些部分。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: yeah most people don't know you as a founder personally and they don't get to shape so so there's like a there's like the the true authentic platonic ideal of Jack and that includes all the things that are true about you properly weighted you a full person... and then there's the world and the world maybe they have this parasocial relationship with you but basically they see some um even more mini version of you refracted from afar.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 是的。大多数人并不私下认识作为创始人的你，他们无法勾勒出你的全貌。所以，存在一个真实的、原汁原味的、柏拉图式理想模型的（platonic ideal）Jack，那包含了关于你的所有真实面、合理的权重，是一个完整的人。然后是外部世界，世界或许与你有一种“准社会关系（parasocial relationship）”，但基本上，他们看到的只是一个从远处折射出来的、更加微型的你。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: this is like the Walter Lipman theory of the the purpose of the media originally is that the world has too much data for us to actually take in and therefore we need something to compress it down to us for a little almost like a metaphor of the world that we then use and so like the model of Jack that people will make will be some version of you you get to have some influence over that version.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这就像沃尔特·李普曼（Walter Lippmann）的理论：媒体最初的目的是因为世界有太多的数据让我们无法完全吸收，因此我们需要某种东西将其压缩（compress），变成一种我们随后可以使用的“世界的隐喻”。所以，人们构建出的“Jack 模型”只会是你的某个版本，而你对那个版本拥有一定的影响力。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: it's worth thinking about what are the things you want to intentionally highlight about yourself you know as long as it's also one of the things that's true if it's a subset of the things that's true you can choose like these are the traits that are most relevant and useful for the business for people to know about me and I want to highlight those.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 值得去思考哪些是你想要有意识地突出的特质。只要它是真实的一部分，即真实属性的一个子集，你就可以选择：“这些是让人们了解我时，对业务最相关、最有用的特质，我想强调这些”。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: it's like you know when anchors go on TV especially Fox they wear a ton of makeup... and that is to like highlight their features so that it so that it still uh in person it looks almost macob but like through the camera it looks normal and so for for your personality traits and the things about you you almost have to amplify them beyond what is normal in in this kind of a setting so that it really reaches the world.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 就像你知道的，当新闻主播上电视时，尤其是福克斯新闻（Fox），他们会化很浓的妆。那是为了突出他们的面部特征，使得虽然在真人看起来甚至有些诡异（macob），但在镜头里看起来却很正常。所以，对于你的性格特质和关于你的事情，在这种设定下，你几乎必须将其放大到超出常态的程度，才能真正触达到世界。

章节 8：叙事复读与文字力量——利用心理学跨越“风险规避”

📝 本节摘要：

本节探讨了有效传播的两个核心实操细节：信息的复读与精准的措辞。Lulu 与 Jack 指出，虽然公司内部会对核心口号感到厌烦，但由于外部感知存在巨大滞后，持续复读是触达受众的唯一途径。此外，Lulu 详细解析了文字选择如何塑造感知（例如将犯罪比作“野兽”或“疾病”会引导完全不同的解决方案），并引入了“前景理论（Prospect Theory）”。她建议创始人不要将产品定位为一种“新风险”，而应利用人类规避损失的本能，将现状描述为“正在下沉的船”，而将自家产品描述为“稳固的陆地”，从而顺应人性推动决策。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: i think about this a lot with um just like companies doing marketing i remember at Lattis like in the early days when we were just you know first doing this our team would be like oh we've said this so many times i'm like yeah inside but outside it's like no one's heard it like zero people know about Lattice so we got to keep saying it it's like that kind of idea and it's weird to repeat yourself so much.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我经常思考公司做市场营销这件事。我记得在 Lattice 的早期，当我们刚开始尝试时，我们的团队会说：“哦，这句话我们已经说过太多次了。”我会回答：“是的，在公司内部是这样，但在外部，就像没人听过一样，根本没人知道 Lattice，所以我们必须不停地说。”就是那种感觉，不停地重复自己确实很奇怪。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: yeah but it's kind of what you need yeah like how many times do you think that think different was said in how many places before it stuck with you or you know like uh Steve Jobs's stay hungry stay foolish speech like how many places did it have to show up before it like reached you and then actually stuck.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 是的，但这正是你需要的。你想想，“不同凡想（Think Different）”在多少个地方被说了多少次才让你记住？或者像史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）那篇“求知若渴，虚心若愚（Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish）”的演讲，它得在多少个地方出现才能触达到你并让你真正刻骨铭心？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: Steve Jobs is another great example of this where the comeback story is like this is his company the correct version of this company has him in it and when he's not there it's not the right version we don't believe in it when he's back it's become the company or it's on the path to becoming the company it was meant to be and it's like destiny fulfilled.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 史蒂夫·乔布斯是另一个绝佳的例子。他的回归故事就像在说：这是他的公司，这家公司的正确版本必须有他在场；当他不在时，它就不是那个正确的版本，我们不相信它；当他回来时，它才变回了那家公司，或者说走上了成为它本应成为的公司的道路，就像天命回归。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: can you talk a little bit about um maybe some of the like nuances around like choices of words and things like that cuz I think like so many to that point you know like think different or like so many of the so many of these messages that get repeated are actually quite short like you don't get a lot of words you don't get a lot of attention.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 你能聊聊关于措辞选择（choices of words）之类的一些细微差别吗？因为我认为，就像“不同凡想”那样，很多这类被反复重复的信息实际上都非常短——你没有太多的字数空间，也得不到太多的注意力。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: English is one of the largest languages in the world because we've absorbed so many words from other languages... so there's a vast array to choose from and the words that you choose actually not to put pressure on people but the each word that you chooses should be loadbearing.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 英语是世界上词汇量最大的语言之一，因为我们吸收了如此多来自其他语言的词汇……所以有大量的词汇可供选择。实际上，并不是要给人们压力，但你选择的每一个词都应该是“承重”的（loadbearing）。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: when it's something important like "What are you going to put on this million dollar billboard campaign that you paid for what goes on your website what are the five words to describe your company it's um not the case that a bunch of words that mean the same thing or the same the way they sound influences how we feel about them.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 当涉及重要事情时，比如“你要在你花费百万美元的广告牌上写什么？你的网站上放什么？描述你公司的五个词是什么？”。并不是说一堆意思相同的词效果就一样，词语的发音方式也会影响我们对它们的感受。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so like the word sinister which means it comes from the word for left cuz left is bad and right is good... has a different feel like a different ear feel... versus words that have rounder feels give people more of a friendly...

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 比如“阴险（sinister）”这个词，它源自表示“左边”的词，因为左代表坏，右代表好……它有一种不同的感觉，一种不同的“听感”……相比之下，发音更圆润的词会给人们一种更友好的感觉。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: one of these examples that I think is pretty famous I've seen a couple times is that if there's crime sweeping let's say San Francisco... one choice is the crime is ravaging through the city just rampaging like a wild beast and we need to get it under control i'd be like we got to stop it got to stop it any means necessary...

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我见过一个相当著名的例子，假设犯罪正席卷旧金山……一种选择是描述“犯罪正在城市中肆虐，像一只野兽（wild beast）一样横冲直撞，我们需要控制住它”。我会觉得：“必须阻止它，不择手段地阻止它，派国民警卫队上吧！”

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and then if the second one were crime is a disease that is spreading and uh it is spreading to more people in neighborhoods and now you're starting to think like yeah disease has patience exactly and so you can put people in a different mindset of like do they want to crack down or do they want to try to send in the social workers through the analogy that you choose and through the words that you choose.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 如果第二种选择是“犯罪是一种正在蔓延的疾病（disease）”，它正在更多社区的人群中传播。现在你会开始想：是的，疾病需要“患者（patients）”和治疗。所以，通过你选择的隐喻和词汇，你可以让人们进入不同的思维模式——他们是想要严厉打击，还是想要派遣社工。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: a lot of founders go against the grain of human psychology... in prospect theory we know that people have risk aversion and we know that the willingness to take a risk is basically double if we're trying to avoid downside than if we're trying to get new upside.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 很多创始人的做法是违背人类心理的。在“前景理论（prospect theory）”中，我们知道人类具有风险规避（risk aversion）倾向，且我们为了规避下行风险（downside）而冒险的意愿，基本上是追求新收益（upside）时的两倍。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so the way that startups talk sometimes to let's say their customers is okay what you've got now is mid and we've got something much much better and if you switch we'll offer you this thing that's much better you're actually going against the grain of human psychology because you're telling them to take a risk on this newer unproven startup.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以，初创公司有时对客户说：“好吧，你现在的产品很平庸，我们有更好得多的东西，如果你换成我们的，我们会提供更好的体验。”你实际上是在违背人类心理，因为你在要求他们为了一个更新、未经验证的初创公司去冒险。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: the image would be like they're standing on solid land and you're rowing by in this rickety canoe and saying if you get in my canoe I'll row you somewhere really awesome... what you want is the image of them on a rickety canoe and you are on solid land and you're like come to us we'll we'll save you.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 那个画面就像是：他们站在稳固的陆地上，而你划着一艘破烂的小木船（rickety canoe）经过并说：“如果你上我的船，我会带你去一个超棒的地方。”客户会想：“但我可能会淹死啊。”你真正想要的画面应该是：他们身处一艘破烂的小船上，而你站在稳固的陆地上说：“到我们这儿来，我们会救你。”

[原文] [Jack Altman]: it's also where like a lot of sales ends up being like you think that your land is solid but that's actually quicksand and all your competitors are doing this thing and so what looks soly right now is going to be gone.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 这也是很多销售最终采取策略的地方，比如：“你以为你站的土地很稳固，但那其实是流沙（quicksand），你所有的竞争对手都在做这件事，所以现在的稳固感很快就会消失。”

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: a good version where you are going with the grain of human psychology would be that you are currently in the losing state and your status quo is actually the losing state and we want to bring you in... your default screwed i think the default dead thing is like amazing.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 顺应人类心理的一个好版本应该是：你目前正处于亏损状态，你的现状实际上就是失败的状态，而我们想把你拉回来。你的默认状态就是“完蛋了”，我认为“默认死掉（default dead）”这个概念太棒了。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: new sales pitch would be the way things are going with what you're using is going to be obsolete in the next 5 years and your competitors are moving to firm land and what we are offering you is to not only keep what you have but to cement your grip on leadership.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 新的销售话术应该是：“按照你目前所使用的产品的发展趋势，它在未来 5 年内就会过时（obsolete），你的竞争对手正在向稳固的陆地转移；而我们为你提供的不仅是保住现状，更是巩固你的领导地位（cement your grip on leadership）。”

章节 9：拿破仑式领导力——公关如何驱动招聘与士气

📝 本节摘要：

本节探讨了公关传播与人才招聘（Recruiting）的深层关联。Lulu 以史诗级的招聘官和士气构建者——拿破仑为例，展示了如何通过“重新命名（Rebranding）”和“赋予崇高使命”来感召人才。拿破仑将危险的自杀式任务重新定义为“无畏者”的荣耀，将普通的战斗命名为“金字塔之战”，让士兵感到自己正身处历史之中。同时，Lulu 强调创始人必须展现“身先士卒”的特质（如拿破仑亲自操作大炮），这种在科技行业体现为“亲自写代码”或“深度参与研发”的行为，能产生极强的磁场，吸引顶尖人才追随。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: My sense is that one of the reasons that this comm's focus has happened is because recruiting has gotten so hard and people have realized that it's deeply connected with recruiting... how does the aura translate or not into the recruiting.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我的感觉是，公关传播（comm's）之所以受到如此关注，原因之一是招聘（recruiting）变得非常困难，人们意识到它与招聘有着深刻的联系……那么，“气场（aura）”是如何转化为（或不转化为）招聘能力的呢？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: This is where we get to talk about Napoleon. Ah I need that. It was waiting to happen and here is the moment. One of the best recruiters of all time and one of the best builders of morale of all time.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这就是我们要聊聊拿破仑的地方了。啊，我正期待这个。它终究还是来了，就是现在。他是史上最伟大的招聘官之一，也是最伟大的士气构建者（builders of morale）之一。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: What made someone like Napoleon such a great recruiter is he gave his men a cause bigger than what it seemed like it was a grander mission... At the Battle of the Pyramids which by the way he rebranded to the Battle of the Pyramids because it sounds cooler... he said something like "from the top of these pyramids 40,000 years of history are looking down on you."

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 让拿破仑成为如此伟大的招聘官的原因在于，他给了部下们一个比眼前事物更宏大的事业，一个更伟大的使命……在“金字塔之战（Battle of the Pyramids）”中——顺便说一下，这个名字是他重新命名的（rebranded），因为这样听起来更酷——他说过类似这样的话：“从这些金字塔的顶端，4万年的历史正注视着你们”。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: There was a group of guys who were sent to hold a bridge and the bridge was within firing range... they had a 100% casualty rate... he rebranded the group of guys he called them "les hommes sans peur" which means "the men without fear"... which one's more attractive: do you want to join the guys who get shot or do you want to join the men without fear?

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 曾有一群人被派去守卫一座桥，那座桥处于敌方火力射程内……他们的伤亡率是 100%……于是他重新命名了这群人，称他们为“les hommes sans peur”，意思是“无畏之士（the men without fear）”。哪一个更有吸引力呢：你是想加入“那群会被射杀的人”，还是想加入“无畏之士”？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: He also made himself part of the army as a soldier... he started being called "the little corporal" because he was aiming the cannons himself which is grunt work... he's in the trenches he's like Tobi's in the lab he's got hands on the keyboard... that's a lot better than the CEO's just on podcast.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 他还让自己作为一名士兵成为军队的一部分……他开始被称为“小伍长（the little corporal）”，因为他亲自瞄准大炮，那可是苦差事（grunt work）。他在战壕里，就像 Tobi（Shopify CEO）在实验室里、手放在键盘上一样……这比那些只会上播客的 CEO 要好得多。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: How do you get the people to follow you so dedicatedly that they will defy orders to shoot you and instead join you? It's because they think that you are their true leader and that this company could only be led by you... if they're part of this team they're part of something to be proud of.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 你如何让人们如此忠诚地追随你，以至于他们会违抗射杀你的命令转而加入你？是因为他们认为你才是他们真正的领袖，而且这家公司只能由你领导……如果他们是这个团队的一员，他们就成了某件值得自豪的事情的一部分。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: Tech companies either get this or don't and it somehow translates into like recruiting... you can see this in the CEOs who do amazing personal recruiting so like Brian Chesky recruits personally... Tobi at Shopify he is like the chief AI tinkerer... Scott Wu at Cognition... engineers feel proud that Scott is a peer to them.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 科技公司要么理解这一点，要么不理解，而这会以某种方式转化为招聘能力。你可以在那些亲自参与招聘的优秀 CEO 身上看到这一点，比如 Brian Chesky（Airbnb CEO）亲自招聘；Shopify 的 Tobi，他就像是首席 AI 修补匠（chief AI tinkerer）；还有 Cognition 的 Scott Wu，工程师们因为 Scott 是他们的同行（peer）而感到自豪。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: With the AI labs it's very it's actually a good case study... the team is shaped in the image of the leader because over time people will converge onto the style of the leader that is sused down to the organization.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: AI 实验室也是一个很好的案例研究。团队是按照领导者的形象塑造的，因为随着时间的推移，人们会趋同于渗透到组织中的领导者风格。

章节 10：传播的通用理论与“叙事溢价” (Narrative Alpha)

📝 本节摘要：

在本节中，Lulu 总结了她从 Anduril 和 Substack 等深度实践中总结出的“传播通用理论（General Theory of Comms）”。她认为传播专家应追求质量而非规模，通过帮助创始人找到“叙事溢价（Narrative Alpha）”来驱动公司价值超越其基本面。她再次强调，沟通说服力是人类在 AI 时代无法被取代的最后堡垒。同时，她建议不要固化于特定的传播形式（如视频或推文），而应像竞争者一样不断寻找新的“叙事边疆”，以保持领先于市场的超额收益。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: I'm curious about like the way that you choose to sort of like practice your business at a high level you can either be like internal and focused on only one place or you could do what you do which is where you work with like a wide breadth and then I guess you're learning things from one experience bringing it to another... i'm curious how you reflect on what's the difference.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我很好奇你在高层面上选择经营业务的方式。你可以选择专注于一家公司内部，也可以像你现在这样，广泛地与不同公司合作。我猜你是从一次经验中学习并带到下一次中……我很想知道你对这两者差异的思考。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: The way I learned to do comms was being just deep in one thing... my main work there was Anduril... working with Palmer and Trey and Brian and Matt and those guys it's like necessity is the mother of invention like they forced us to do things unconventionally... and then through Substack which is still like very near and dear to my heart... I'm trying to form a general theory of comms and I'm still learning in the process but I don't want to confine that to just one place because I actually want to change how comms is done across the industry.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我学习公关传播（comms）的方式就是深耕于一件事……我在那里的主要工作是 Anduril。与 Palmer、Trey、Brian 和 Matt 这些人共事，就像“需要是发明之母”，他们迫使我们用非传统的方式做事。后来通过 Substack（它依然是我心头所好），我没日没夜地投入其中。我现在正试图形成一套“传播的通用理论（general theory of comms）”，虽然仍处于学习过程中，但我不想局限于某一个地方，因为我确实想改变整个行业的传播方式。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: It seems like you probably couldn't even get to the general theory of comms if you only worked with one place... you probably need to see all of these different examples to like get completeness.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 看起来，如果你只在一个地方工作，可能根本无法总结出传播的通用理论。你可能需要看到所有这些不同的例子来获得完整性。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: for inputs I want to see more broadly what is going on across um different pockets of the industry... and then externally I really want the entire industry all of us together to get amazing at this because... if each company gets better at making their case and gets more powerful and hires and grows faster then all of tech grows faster and that's better for America and the world.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 在输入端，我想更广泛地观察行业不同领域的现状。在外部，我真心希望我们整个行业能一起把这件事做得很棒，因为如果每家公司都能更擅长陈述自己的主张、变得更强大、招聘和成长得更快，那么整个科技行业都会成长得更快，这对美国和世界都更好。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: it's hard to do that from within one company but I still try to concentrate as much as possible so instead of taking like 30 clients you know I take less than half of that... it's me and my apprentice Gabby... I do want to do the general relativity theory for coms like general theory for comms and that applies to the industry more broadly.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 在一家公司内部很难做到这一点，但我仍尽量保持专注。所以我没有接 30 个客户，而是接了不到一半。团队只有我和我的学徒 Gabby。我确实想做出传播领域的“广义相对论”，也就是一套适用于更广泛行业的传播通用理论。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: the thing that I have extremely high confidence in is that comms is the final bastion of human ability where 10 years from now 50 years from now the ability to persuade and win over and make other people fall in love for other humans will still be uniquely human and and we have to get really really good at that because AI can't.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我非常有信心的一点是，公关传播（comms）是人类能力的最后堡垒。无论是 10 年后还是 50 年后，说服他人、赢得人心以及让人对他人产生好感的能力，仍将是人类所独有的。我们必须非常擅长这一点，因为 AI 无法做到。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: the thing that I have least confidence in is the form factor is it videos is it podcast what about the role of the media is that shifting i do not recommend that people anchor to a specific form factor... you need to be ready to outrun your good your own ideas... once it reaches saturation it's actually cringe to keep doing it so you have to find the next thing.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我最没信心的是形式因素（form factor）——是视频？是播客？媒体的角色是否在发生变化？我不建议人们锚定在某一种特定的形式上。你需要准备好超越你自己的好点子。一旦某种形式达到饱和，继续做下去实际上会让人觉得尴尬（cringe），所以你必须寻找下一个突破点。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: the takeaways from here are you need to find your narrative alpha um you need to find the way that narrative makes your company even more valuable than the fundamentals would make it be that's the job of the founder.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这里的核心结论是：你需要找到你的“叙事溢价（narrative alpha）”。你需要找到一种方式，通过叙事让你的公司比基本面所能体现的价值更高，这就是创始人的工作。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: that alpha is determined by the homeostatic set point that people think your company deserves and where you are now relative to that and that this is the skill that every human should try to master as much as they can.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 这种溢价取决于人们认为你的公司应得的“稳态点（homeostatic set point）”，以及你现在相对于那个点的位置。这是每个职业人都应竭力掌握的技能。

章节 11：终章——超越“直接沟通”，媒体关系的回归与新平衡

📝 本节摘要：

尽管 Lulu 一直提倡创始人“直接面向受众（Go Direct）”，但她在本节中指出，我们正处于一个回归媒体相关性的新周期。她强调，“直接沟通”并不意味着抵制媒体，而是要建立“自给自足”的能力，从而在合作中掌握主动权，而非盲目依赖。此外，她提出了一个独特的观点：在 AI 驱动搜索的时代，传统媒体的深度报道能为 AI 模型提供关键的“事实固化”，其权威性在杂乱的社交平台信息面前反而愈发重要。最终，科技界与媒体将从过去的对抗走向一种基于协作的“新平衡”。

[原文] [Jack Altman]: I have one more thing I got to ask you mentioned the media and you obviously you know are big about going direct and how important that is but if you had to guess where is this dynamic going to go with tech and the media and that relationship cuz it used to be that all the announcements happened there now there's this hybrid mix there's a sort of love-hate relationship where where will this where will this trend line go.

[译文] [Jack Altman]: 我还有一个问题。你提到了媒体，而且你显然非常推崇“直接沟通（going direct）”及其重要性。但如果你要预测一下，科技界与媒体之间的动态关系将走向何方？因为过去所有的发布都在媒体上，现在则是一种混合状态，存在一种爱恨交织的关系。这条趋势线会指向哪里？

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: i think we're um going back uh towards the media actually being more relevant and this is why I say not to be dogmatic even in my very depths of distrusting the media and being blackfilled about the media even then I had reporters that I knew and trusted and it was mutual and we could work together.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我认为我们实际上正在回归——媒体正变得更加相关。这就是为什么我说不要教条化。即使在我对媒体极度不信任、感到绝望的时候，我依然有认识并信任的记者，我们之间有默契且可以协作。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: going direct does not mean that you have to boycott the media it means that you can't uh be dependent on others you need to create self-sufficiency and then you can choose to collaborate with the media but it's not that oh nobody wants to cover this story so I'm just up the creek.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: “直接沟通”并不意味着你必须抵制媒体，它意味着你不能“依赖”他人。你需要建立自给自足（self-sufficiency）的能力，然后你可以“选择”与媒体合作。这样就不会出现“哎呀，没人报道这个故事，我就彻底没戏了”的窘境。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: so where is this going i think actually that media is becoming more relevant there was sort of like a nayir in tech media relations where it's like very combative and now the relationship is better the coverage is better there's sort of also some fresh blood in tech journalism that is very curious and forwardleaning.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 所以这会走向何方？我认为媒体实际上正变得更加重要。科技媒体关系曾经历过一个极度对抗的“最低谷（nadir）”，而现在关系正在改善，报道质量在提高，科技新闻领域也出现了一些充满好奇心和前瞻性的新鲜血液。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: and now that people are getting more of their information from say Chachi BT or Claude or whatever um media can be very helpful for that you know Claude is not necessarily going to tell you well three people tweeted about you favorably today... but if there's like one article in an outlet it can kind of solidify that for you online.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 现在人们更多地从 ChatGPT 或 Claude 获取信息，媒体在其中能起到很大帮助。你知道，Claude 不一定会告诉你今天有三个人发推特夸了你，但如果某家媒体发表了一篇相关文章，它就能在互联网上为你“固化（solidify）”这些信息。

[原文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: we were overly reliant on the media and then it became very competitive and and I think we're reaching a new equilibrium collaboration sounds good to me that'd be great.

[译文] [Lulu Cheng Meservey]: 我们曾过度依赖媒体，随后关系变得非常具有对抗性。我认为我们正在达成一种“新平衡（new equilibrium）”。在我看来，协作听起来很棒。

访谈总结（Sources Key Insights）：

在这场深度对谈中，Lulu Cheng Meservey 揭示了现代公关的本质：

系统的整理能为您提供关于公关与叙事的全新视角！