章节 1：开场与团队背景介绍

📝 本节摘要：

本节包含一段关于教师角色的核心观点引言，随后主持人 Drew Bent 开场，介绍了访谈的主题（AI与教育）。来自 Anthropic 的四位嘉宾（Drew, Zoe, Maggie, Ephraim）分别进行了自我介绍，阐述了各自在团队中的角色，涵盖了产品部署、公众教育、团队管理及产品工程等领域。

[原文] [Teaser Clip]: I would hate to see a future where teachers outsource to AI the parts that I think really make good education, which is the connection pieces, when you really understand your students and can spend time with them, and AI can be used in so many ways that allow teachers to have more time to do that kind of work. And I'm excited for us to talk with institutions and discuss with them ways where we can amplify that knowledge they already have.

[译文] [片头引语]: 我非常不希望看到这样的未来：教师将那些真正造就良好教育的部分外包给 AI，也就是人与人连接的部分，即当你真正理解你的学生并能花时间与他们相处的时候。AI 可以通过多种方式使用，从而让教师有更多时间去做这类工作。我很兴奋能与各机构对话，探讨我们要如何利用 AI 来放大他们已有的知识。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: Hi everyone. We're here to talk about my favorite topic, which is AI and education. My name is Drew Bent. I lead our work here in education on beneficial deployments. Formerly was a high school math teacher. My parents are educators. I worked in education nonprofits and would definitely consider myself a lifelong learner. I'm joined here by my wonderful colleagues who work in education across the organization. Do you wanna start, Zoe?,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 大家好。我们要来谈谈我最喜欢的话题，也就是 AI 与教育。我是 Drew Bent。我在这里负责教育领域的有益部署工作。我以前是一名高中数学老师。我的父母都是教育工作者。我曾在教育非营利组织工作，并且绝对认为自己是一个终身学习者。今天和我在一起的是我在整个组织中从事教育工作的出色同事们。Zoe，你想先开始吗？,

[原文] [Zoe]: Happy to. Yeah. Hi, I'm Zoe. I'm on our education team here at Anthropic and I support all of our non-technical audiences, including educating teachers and students about both our products and AI in general.

[译文] [Zoe]: 很乐意。是的。嗨，我是 Zoe。我在 Anthropic 的教育团队，我负责支持所有的非技术受众，包括向教师和学生普及我们的产品以及通用的 AI 知识。

[原文] [Maggie]: Hi, I'm Maggie and I founded and currently manage and support said education team, which we fondly internally call the Ministry of Education.

[译文] [Maggie]: 嗨，我是 Maggie，我创立并目前管理和支持上述教育团队，我们在内部亲切地称之为“教育部”。

[原文] [Ephraim]: Hi, I'm Ephraim. I'm a product engineering manager and I've also helped build some of our products for facing education.

[译文] [Ephraim]: 嗨，我是 Ephraim。我是一名产品工程经理，我也曾协助构建了一些面向教育的产品。

章节 2：为何 Anthropic 关注教育？（使命与风险）

📝 本节摘要：

主持人 Drew 提出了核心问题：为什么作为一家通用 AI 实验室要涉足教育？他指出教育是 AI 技术潜力与风险并存的典型体现。讨论涵盖了 AI 在预防教师职业倦怠、普及高质量辅导等方面的益处，以及关于作弊、甚至替代人类思考等潜在风险的担忧。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: So I think it's helpful to start here with why are we discussing education in the first place or why do we even work on education in the first place at this general purpose AI lab? You know, we all know of course that at Anthropic we care a lot about studying both the potential of the technology that we're building, but also the risks.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 所以我认为从这里开始很有帮助：究竟我们为什么要讨论教育，或者说我们这家通用 AI 实验室最初为什么要从事教育工作？你们知道，我们当然都知道在 Anthropic，我们非常重视研究我们正在构建的技术的潜力，但也同样重视其风险。,

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I think education is the perfect example and sort of embodiment of that because of course there's massive benefits as we'll talk about in this conversation. But there's also a lot of concerns we have about the impacts of AI and education.

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我认为教育是一个完美的例子，也是这种（潜力与风险并存）的体现，因为当然正如我们将在这次对话中谈到的那样，它有巨大的益处。但对于 AI 对教育的影响，我们也有很多担忧。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: And so when we think about the benefits, we think about, you know, I've had many conversations with you all about how AI can prevent teacher burnout, how it can transform and really democratize access to high quality learning and tutoring, how it can change, you know, how and what teachers teach.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 因此，当我们思考益处时，我们想到的是——你知道，我和你们都进行过多次对话——关于 AI 如何防止教师职业倦怠，它如何转型并真正让人们平等地获得高质量的学习和辅导，以及它如何改变教师的教学方式和内容。,

[原文] [Drew Bent]: But then we also of course see the other side of it, which are all the risks and the concerns around, you know, that teachers have about how AI could lead to more cheating and is leading to more cheating of course, but also serve the more existential risks of how do we make sure that these tools are actually enhancing and augmenting human thought as opposed to replacing it.

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 但我们也当然看到了它的另一面，也就是所有的风险和担忧，比如教师们担心的 AI 可能导致更多的作弊——当然它正在导致更多的作弊——但也包括更具存在主义色彩的风险，即我们如何确保这些工具实际上是在增强和扩充人类的思维，而不是取代它。

章节 3：个人源动力：从家长到教育者的视角

📝 本节摘要：

嘉宾们分享了各自投身教育领域的个人动机。Maggie 和 Ephraim 强调了作为家长对孩子未来的担忧，特别是 AI 时代下如何培养孩子成为批判性思考者。Drew 回顾了自己从教师转行到科技界的初衷，即希望通过技术实现规模化的教育变革。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: So maybe to get started, I would love to hear, you know, I know all of you, I've known you for a while, but I don't necessarily know all of your stories on what got you interested working on education in the first place. So Maggie would love to start with you and what brought you into this work?

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 那么也许作为开始，我很想听听，你知道，虽然我认识你们所有人，也认识有一段时间了，但我未必知道你们最初是对什么产生兴趣从而投身教育的故事。所以 Maggie，我想先从你开始，是什么把你带入这项工作的？

[原文] [Maggie]: Well, my interest in education is twofold. I think professionally, education and communication has always been part of every job I've ever held up until Anthropic. And I think personally I, you know, have two lovely kids in my life and I am grappling with just as every other parent is in this era, what can I do to help them to being kind of intelligent, thoughtful, like thinkers and and critically engaged individuals as they grow up in the AI age.,

[译文] [Maggie]: 嗯，我对教育的兴趣是双重的。我认为在职业上，在我加入 Anthropic 之前，教育和沟通一直是我从事过的每一份工作的一部分。而在个人方面，我的生活中有两个可爱的孩子，我和这个时代的每一位家长一样都在努力应对：当他们在 AI 时代成长时，我能做些什么来帮助他们成为聪明的、有思想的思考者，以及具有批判性参与精神的个体。,

[原文] [Ephraim]: Well, so I started my career in academia. I studied physics, maths, and I assumed I was going to be doing research for most of my life before switching to tech. And I, I've taught classes when I was at MIT, I've been in adjunct faculty, so education has been something I've always been interested in.

[译文] [Ephraim]: 嗯，我的职业生涯始于学术界。我学习物理和数学，在转行到科技界之前，我曾以为我会大半辈子都做研究。我在麻省理工学院（MIT）时教过课，也做过兼职教师，所以教育一直是我感兴趣的事情。

[原文] [Ephraim]: When it comes to AI and education, I have two children who are in college, so I worry every day about what they're learning, how they're learning, what will they do once they graduate. I'm also very passionate about, actually we'll talk about later on, how do institutions deal with AI in, in their, in their education.,

[译文] [Ephraim]: 谈到 AI 和教育，我有两个正在上大学的孩子，所以我每天都担心他们在学什么、怎么学、毕业后会做什么。我也非常热衷于——实际上我们稍后会谈到——机构如何在他们的教育中应对 AI。,

[原文] [Maggie]: I mean I think like you and I both having children in our lives is like one of the most pressingly concerning things. Yeah. Where it makes it so real for you right now. Right, right. And I think that like your kids are college age and so they're trying to figure out what they're doing in their lives and then my kids are younger, but I see it on the horizon that very soon there's like strong decision points where you can decide how to start nurturing this kind of thinking.,

[译文] [Maggie]: 我想既然你我生活中有孩子，这就像是最紧迫、最令人担忧的事情之一。是的。这让你现在的感觉非常真实。对，对。我觉得你的孩子到了上大学的年纪，所以他们正在努力弄清楚他们的人生要做什么，而我的孩子还小，但我看到这已经出现在地平线上了，很快就会出现那种强有力的决策点，你可以决定如何开始培养这种思维。,

[原文] [Drew Bent]: Yeah, I feel like that's hitting on a lot of like why I got into education in the first place, which is I have this very deep seated belief that education is one of the most important things we can do to make change in our society. ... when I, you know, pivoted from the classroom into tech, it was because I wanted to work for organizations that could do that change at scale.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 是的，我觉得这触及了很多我最初投身教育的原因，那就是我有一种根深蒂固的信念，认为教育是我们为社会带来变革所能做的最重要的事情之一。……当我从课堂转向科技界时，是因为我想为那些能够大规模实现这种变革的组织工作。,

章节 4：数据洞察：学生如何使用 AI 与教育的“倒置”

📝 本节摘要：

团队分享了 Anthropic 内部的研究发现。数据显示，虽然 Claude 并非专为教育设计，但大量用户将其用于教育场景。令人担忧的是，47% 的学生交互是直接的、交易性的（只要答案），而非深入学习。但同时，数据也显示 Claude 在布鲁姆分类法的高阶能力（创造、分析）上表现优异，这导致了学生反过来利用 AI 进行高阶思考，迫使教育者重新思考教学内容。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: But I think it's helpful to also ground this conversation in some of the research that we've all been working on here. And so it was I think late last year that our Societal Impacts team at Anthropic had done research into all the ways that, you know, users are using Claude and found that some of the top uses were in education.

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 但我认为将这次对话建立在我们一直在做的一些研究基础上也很有帮助。我想是去年年底，Anthropic 的社会影响团队对用户使用 Claude 的所有方式进行了研究，发现其中一些最主要的应用场景是在教育领域。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: But I think what stood out in the research is, one stat that's always comes up is 47% of the student interactions on Claude were very direct transactional types of interactions with little engagements.

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 但我认为在研究中引人注目的是，有一个数据总是被提及：47% 的学生在 Claude 上的互动是非常直接的、交易型的互动，几乎没有深度参与。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: And I know as a teacher, like for me, I sort of think about the different cognitive skills that I want, you know, my students to learn... we call this Blooms taxonomy, but what we saw in the data that I think was fascinating was we start to study Claude's interactions in these conversations and saw how well Claude is performing on these cognitive tasks and found that Claude was performing at the these top levels of creating and analyzing when, again, as a teacher that's what you want your students to do.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我知道作为一名教师，对我来说，我会思考我希望学生学习的不同的认知技能……我们称之为布鲁姆分类法，但我们在数据中看到我认为很迷人的一点是，我们开始研究 Claude 在这些对话中的互动，看到了 Claude 在这些认知任务上的表现有多好，并发现 Claude 在“创造”和“分析”这些最高层级上表现出色，而再次强调，作为一名教师，这正是你希望学生去做的。,

[原文] [Maggie]: Yeah, I think the students are kind of flipping the script on this in a way that's concerning to us as educators. And I don't know if that's necessarily, I think the first blush reaction is that that's a bad thing. But I think part of what I want to challenge us to think about and and the world to think about is, is there like a novel taxonomy where that's the baseline and then you can build on top of that to something new that hasn't been possible before AI.,

[译文] [Maggie]: 是的，我认为学生们在这方面正在“反转剧本”，这种方式让我们作为教育者感到担忧。我不确定这是否必然……我认为第一反应是这是一件坏事。但我想要挑战我们去思考，也让世界去思考的一部分是：是否有一种新的分类法，让这（AI 的能力）成为基线，然后你可以在此基础上构建一些在 AI 出现之前不可能实现的全新事物。,

章节 5：变革潜力：互动性、角色扮演与个性化评估

📝 本节摘要：

嘉宾们探讨了 AI 最令人兴奋的应用场景。Drew 提到了病毒模拟游戏的互动性；Zoe 强调了 AI 在低资源地区作为职业教练或历史人物角色扮演的潜力；Ephraim 展望了持续性、个性化的辅导（One-on-one tutoring）能让每个学生拥有自己的学习旅程。此外，他们还讨论了利用学生个人兴趣定制教材的

“蒙特梭利式”规模化应用。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I would love to hear from all of you, what is one thing you're really excited about with how AI can transform teaching and learning?

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我很想听听你们所有人的看法，关于 AI 如何改变教学和学习，哪一点是你们真正感到兴奋的？

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I think one thing that really stands out to me is interactive learning experiences... AI really lets you do this at scale with any subject, right? Like imagine you're talking to a historical figure...,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我认为真正让我印象深刻的一点是互动式学习体验……AI 确实让你能够在任何学科上大规模地做到这一点，对吧？想象一下你正在与一位历史人物交谈……,

[原文] [Zoe]: I think the interactivity is also really interesting to me. There's so much assistance you can get from AI that is really hard resourcing wise to get the interactivity, especially in like low resource regions where you know, many students don't have access to like a personal career coach... and with the power of an AI like Claude, you can like upload like the job listing your resume and so on and just ask Claude to help you role play through these things.,

[译文] [Zoe]: 我觉得互动性对我也真的很有趣。你可以从 AI 那里获得很多帮助，这在资源分配上很难获得这种互动性，特别是在那些低资源地区，你知道，许多学生没有机会接触到像个人职业教练这样的人……而借助像 Claude 这样的 AI 的力量，你可以上传职位描述、你的简历等等，然后直接让 Claude 帮你通过角色扮演来演练这些事情。,

[原文] [Ephraim]: One thing that I'm really excited about AI could provide this personalized learning. There is a research done on one-on-one tutoring... With AI you get continuous one-on-one tutoring and that is available to everybody, you know, around the world. So I think that is, has a great potential to transform the world and how people learn.,

[译文] [Ephraim]: 关于 AI 能提供的个性化学习，有一点让我非常兴奋。有一项关于一对一辅导的研究……有了 AI，你可以获得持续的一对一辅导，而且这对世界上的每个人都是可用的。所以我认为这具有巨大的潜力去改变世界和人们学习的方式。,

[原文] [Zoe]: You know, this reminds me of a really interesting use case... There's a teacher I talked to that's just like, I ask my students what their favorite things are, they tell me a little story and then now every single handout that you have... is made for each student and it's like exactly according to their interests.,

[译文] [Zoe]: 你知道，这让我想起了一个非常有趣的用例……我曾和一位老师交谈，她说，我问我的学生他们最喜欢的东西是什么，他们给我讲一个小故事，然后现在你手里的每一份讲义……都是为每个学生量身定做的，完全符合他们的兴趣。,

章节 6：产品层的缺失与批判性思维的培养

📝 本节摘要：

话题转向了挑战。Ephraim 指出目前缺乏专门面向教育的“产品层”，导致学校只能通过回归纸笔考试来应对作弊恐惧。Maggie 则强调在 AI 时代，教育比以往任何时候都重要，特别是培养孩子成为“信息的批判性消费者”。团队提倡家长与孩子一起使用 AI，并“示范不确定性”（modeling uncertainty），展示如何验证 AI 的答案。

[原文] [Ephraim]: As somebody who's in product, in product development, what I see is this absence of product layer that would help both students and teachers use AI very effectively... They want them to write on a piece of paper because they're afraid about cheating. Well the reason it is so challenging now is there aren't products for the students could use to learn.,

[译文] [Ephraim]: 作为一名从事产品开发的人员，我看到的是这种产品层的缺失，这种产品层本可以帮助学生和教师非常有效地使用 AI……他们（学校）要求学生在纸上书写，因为他们害怕作弊。目前的挑战之所以如此严峻，是因为没有供学生用来学习的产品。,

[原文] [Maggie]: One is a lot more professional interest and where I feel like I can make a difference and a latter is like pressingly concerning to my immediate like core as someone who is a guardian to young minds... The latter part is developing them into like critical consumers of information where it's not just about this is what a fact that's given to me is, but like why is that the case? How do I trust that that's true?,

[译文] [Maggie]: （注：此处接续其作为监护人的观点）一方面是更多的职业兴趣以及我觉得我可以有所作为的地方，另一方面则是我作为一个年轻思想监护人内心深处最紧迫的担忧……后一部分是将他们培养成信息的批判性消费者，这不仅仅是关于“这就是给我的事实”，而是“为什么是这样？我如何相信这是真的？”,

[原文] [Zoe]: And so there's something really profound about just sitting with whether it's your students or your actual children and just like learning with them, asking AI something and then evaluating what comes out of that together and like having kids reflect and building their own frameworks for interacting with AI.

[译文] [Zoe]: 因此，无论是和你的学生还是你自己的孩子坐在一起，和他们一起学习，这其中有一些非常深刻的东西：问 AI 一些问题，然后一起评估输出的结果，让孩子们反思并建立他们自己与 AI 互动的框架。

[原文] [Zoe]: And I think of the, the converse side is to kind of demonstrate what it's like to not know something. I think that a lot of times like showing uncertainty and modeling for your kids when you don't know something, what is your own process of finding that out, right?

[译文] [Zoe]: 我想反过来的一面是展示“不知道某事”是什么样子的。我认为很多时候，比如展示不确定性，并在你不知道某事时为你的孩子示范，你自己找出答案的过程是什么，对吧？

章节 7：学习基础的变迁：阅读代码 vs 编写代码

📝 本节摘要：

Drew 提出了一个具体的观察：在 AI 辅助编程的时代，技能学习的顺序正在发生根本性变化。以前学习编程是 90% 写代码，10% 读代码；现在使用 AI 编程助手，情况反转为 10% 写，90% 读和审查。这引发了对是否需要重新审视教育基础（fundamentals）的思考。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I agree. Although I do think some of the, the fundamentals are changing in terms of the order in which we learn things. So one example I go back to as you know, you talked about programming... I spent 90% of my CS education learning how to write code... And then now of course at Anthropic when I program with all the coding agents and Claude code and all of that, I spend, you know, maybe 10% of my time writing the code but 90% of my time reading the code.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我同意。虽然我确实认为一些基础知识在学习顺序方面正在发生变化。所以我回想到的一个例子是，你知道，你谈到了编程……我花了计算机科学教育中 90% 的时间学习如何编写代码……而现在当然在 Anthropic，当我使用所有的编码智能体和 Claude code 等工具编程时，你知道，我可能只花 10% 的时间写代码，但花 90% 的时间阅读代码。,

[原文] [Drew Bent]: And so it has made me wonder, you know, we usually learn how to read before we write just as kids... But then with coding we often spend a lot more of a time writing and then reading. And so it is starting to make me wonder like do we have to revisit some of those fundamentals...,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 所以这让我不禁思考，你知道，作为一个孩子我们通常是先学阅读再学写作……但在编程方面，我们往往花更多的时间在写作上，然后才是阅读。所以这开始让我想知道，我们是否必须重新审视其中一些基础知识……,

章节 8：Anthropic 的行动 I：AI 素养课程

📝 本节摘要：

团队讨论了 Anthropic 作为一家公益公司的责任。Zoe 介绍了他们开发的“AI 素养”（AI Fluency）课程，旨在教导用户如何高效、合乎道德且安全地使用 AI。Maggie 强调了一个反直觉的理念：教会人们“何时不使用 AI”同样重要，目标是培养人们的自主决策能力，而不是依赖技术。

[原文] [Zoe]: So one of the things I'm really excited about is our AI fluency courses. We partnered with two professors... The idea here is we wanna give people a tool that they can use to understand the interactions that they're having with AI and work towards interactions that are efficient, effective, ethical, and safe.,

[译文] [Zoe]: 所以我真正感到兴奋的事情之一是我们的 AI 素养课程。我们与两位教授合作……这里的想法是，我们希望给人们一种工具，让他们可以用它来理解他们与 AI 的互动，并致力于实现高效、有效、合乎道德和安全的互动。,

[原文] [Maggie]: I think there's something that we say in the education team every now and then, which I think resonates a lot, which is like we would much rather teach a million people to not use AI than like watch a billion people to become dependent on the technology, right?

[译文] [Maggie]: 我想我们在教育团队中时不时会说一句话，我认为这句话很有共鸣，那就是：我们宁愿教一百万人不使用 AI，也不愿看着十亿人变得依赖这项技术，对吧？

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I still remember when I first heard you say that and I was so happy and I knew I'd come to the right company because here I was at an AI lab and Maggie was saying, yeah, I don't think we should use AI in this case or let's teach people how not to use AI.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我还记得我第一次听到你这么说的时候，我太开心了，我知道我来对了公司，因为我身处一个 AI 实验室，而 Maggie 却在说，是的，我不认为这种情况下我们应该使用 AI，或者让我们教人们如何不使用 AI。,

章节 9：Anthropic 的行动 II：构建“学习模式”

📝 本节摘要：

Ephraim 介绍了 Claude 的“学习模式”（Learning Mode）。这一功能的开发并非自上而下的指令，而是源于学生对避免“脑腐”（brain rot）的呼声。学生们不希望 AI 直接给出答案，而是希望它像导师一样引导解题过程。该功能将 Claude 定位为导师，通过助记卡片和引导式问答来辅助深度学习。

[原文] [Ephraim]: So learning mode is a set of features that positions Claude as a tutor to students. Students could come in and for example, and upload their assignments and rather than answer the questions explicitly, it would help the students through the material... It will guide them through how to answer the question. It will tutor them...

[译文] [Ephraim]: 学习模式是一组将 Claude 定位为学生导师的功能。学生可以进来，例如上传他们的作业，（Claude）不是直接回答问题，而是帮助学生梳理材料……它会引导他们如何回答问题。它会辅导他们……

[原文] [Drew Bent]: But it was really the students who I think really drove the point home for us because they of course used a different word, which is brain rot, but we heard them talking about brain rot and they, you know, realized that in the short term it could, they can use AI chat bots to like help 'em, you know, just finish an assignment, right? But when it comes to actually like studying for their midterm... they wanted a version of Claude where they didn't have to prompt it...

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 但我认为真正让我们深刻认识到这一点的是学生们，因为他们当然使用了不同的词，也就是“脑腐”（brain rot），但我们听到他们谈论脑腐，他们意识到，在短期内，他们可以使用 AI 聊天机器人来帮助他们，你知道，只是完成作业，对吧？但当涉及到真正为期中考试学习时……他们想要一个不需要他们去（费力）写提示词的 Claude 版本……

[原文] [Ephraim]: Exactly. They, they didn't want to just, you know, give it an assignment, it just pops the answer... And instead you give it an assignment, it guides you through the answers.

[译文] [Ephraim]: 正是。他们不想只是，你知道，给它一份作业，它就直接弹出答案……相反，你给它一份作业，它会引导你得出答案。

章节 10：外部合作与以人为本的指标

📝 本节摘要：

团队强调 Anthropic 并非一家追求用户留存率（Retention）的 SaaS 公司，而是关注社会影响。他们与教师工会（AFT）等机构合作，倾听一线声音。讨论指出，成功的标志不是让用户对产品上瘾，而是让 AI 增强人类能力，甚至鼓励用户“去摸摸草”（touch grass，意为回归现实生活）。

[原文] [Zoe]: We get to partner with these organizations to learn from teachers who are actually in the classroom and professors who are in universities to understand the real problems that they're having in their schools and the real benefits...

[译文] [Zoe]: 我们有机会与这些组织合作，向真正在课堂上的教师和大学里的教授学习，以了解他们在学校面临的真正问题以及真正的益处……

[原文] [Maggie]: So I'm like very proud of us in general in our products for not optimizing for kind of the standard engagement metrics where we're not trying to optimize for retention or you know, how much time you spend on the product or dependency on the product. And we make active product decisions, you know, now and into the future that sometimes actually encourage that greater augmented thinking or encourage again times when you don't use AI or as the kids call it, touch grass, right?

[译文] [Maggie]: 所以我总体上为我们的产品感到非常自豪，因为我们没有针对那种标准的用户参与度指标进行优化，我们并不试图优化留存率，或者你知道，你在产品上花费的时间或对产品的依赖性。而且我们做出积极的产品决策，无论是现在还是未来，有时实际上是在鼓励那种更宏大的增强型思维，或者再次鼓励你不使用 AI 的时刻，或者像孩子们说的那样，“去摸摸草”（回归现实），对吧？

章节 11：未知与挑战：机构适应与教育“解绑”

📝 本节摘要：

团队探讨了目前仍未解决的难题。包括机构适应技术的缓慢速度、数据隐私问题，以及教育的“解绑”（Unbundling）。Ephraim 提出，AI 可能接管知识传授的部分，但教育机构应保留其在学生成长、成熟和社交方面的核心角色。对话还涉及了如何改变评估方式——从评估结果转向评估使用 AI 的过程。

[原文] [Zoe]: I hear a lot of concerns in K 12 about the different tools and trying to understand what hap what happens to the data when you put it in those tools.

[译文] [Zoe]: 我在 K-12（基础教育）领域听到了很多担忧，关于不同的工具，以及试图理解当你把数据放入这些工具时会发生什么。

[原文] [Ephraim]: I think that pace of change to how institutions generally adapt a new technology is one area that I'm uncertain about.

[译文] [Ephraim]: 我认为机构通常适应新技术的速度与（AI技术变革的）变化速度之间的关系，是我感到不确定的一个领域。

[原文] [Ephraim]: I kind of call this unbundling of education... So what AI solves, you know, very like really well is knowledge, impart knowledge and learning. I think what we would have to do as society moving forward is how do we leverage AI in the knowledge transfer part but also retain these institutions for all of the great roles that they play in society.,,

[译文] [Ephraim]: 我把这称为教育的“解绑”……AI 解决得非常好的部分是知识，即传授知识和学习。我认为随着社会向前发展，我们必须做的是，如何在知识传递部分利用 AI，但同时也保留这些机构在社会中扮演的所有重要角色。,,

[原文] [Zoe]: This conversation is also reminding me of like a, a part of the AI Fluency curriculum we have for educators that I found super compelling, which is to have AI be so integrated... and to instead start grading AI use and not grade the outcomes as much.,

[译文] [Zoe]: 这次对话也让我想起了我们面向教育者的 AI 素养课程中的一部分，我觉得非常引人注目，那就是让 AI 深度整合……转而开始对“AI 的使用”进行评分，而不是过多地对（最终）结果评分。,

章节 12：未来展望：提问的时代

📝 本节摘要：

在访谈的最后，嘉宾们展望了五年后的图景。他们希望教师能从繁琐工作中解放出来，专注于人际连接；希望每个学生都能拥有个性化导师。讨论以一个深刻的观点作结：AI 时代将是“提出好问题的时代”，人类的核心竞争力将不再是拥有答案，而是保持好奇心和辨别真伪的能力。

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I would love to hear from all of you as we think about five years out, what's a success look like for teaching and learning?

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我很想听听你们所有人的看法，当我们展望五年后，教学和学习的成功会是什么样子的？

[原文] [Maggie]: ...I do know what I hope for, which is that in educational institutions we have like teachers have so much more time to engage individually in the relationships and the fostering portion of it.,

[译文] [Maggie]: ……但我确实知道我希望的是什么，那就是在教育机构中，教师有更多的时间单独参与到关系建立和培养的部分中去。,

[原文] [Zoe]: I want every person really, every student, every teacher to have a shared vocabulary and cultural understanding around what it means to use AI and learning.,

[译文] [Zoe]: 我真的希望每个人，每个学生，每个老师，对于在学习中使用 AI 意味着什么，都能拥有一套共享的词汇和文化理解。,

[原文] [Drew Bent]: I think the thing I keep going back to, which to me brings optimism... I do see in a world where, you know, intelligence is becoming abundant and in some ways commoditized, I think that will, you know, no longer be our defining trait as as humans.,

[译文] [Drew Bent]: 我认为我不断回顾并带给我乐观情绪的一点是……我确实看到在一个智力变得丰富且在某种程度上商品化的世界里，我认为那将不再是我们作为人类的决定性特征。,

[原文] [Zoe]: There's an Oxford professor that said this, this great quote I think about all the time, which is he says, I think the age of AI will be the age of asking good questions. And like that's something that doesn't necessarily come from knowing a lot, right? It's just about being curious and then also being a little discerning and skeptical about things you get in return...,

[译文] [Zoe]: 有一位牛津教授说过这句话，这句很棒的名言我一直在思考，他说，我认为 AI 时代将是提出好问题的时代。这并不一定源于懂得很多，对吧？它仅仅关于保持好奇心，并且对你得到的回应保持一点辨别力和怀疑态度……,

[原文] [Zoe]: There's never been a better time to have a problem.

[译文] [Zoe]: 从未有过比现在更适合拥有（去解决）问题的时刻了。