章节 1：育儿的先决思考——并非人人都必须成为父母

📝 本节摘要：

本章节为访谈的开篇。主持人 Jay Shetty 提出了一个在大众语境中常被回避的犀利问题：是否每个人都应该成为父母？心理学家 Dr. Alisa Pressman 指出，育儿不应是社会期望下的“自动驾驶”或“传送带”式的人生步骤，而应是一种基于个人召唤的慎重选择。她强调了在成为父母前进行“自我反思”的重要性——通过回顾自己的成长历程（“我是如何成为今天的我的”），我们可以从被动接受转变为“有意识的育儿（Intentional Parenting）”，并制定属于自己的育儿使命宣言。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: hey everyone welcome back to on purpose I know that you come back here every week to become happier healthier and more healed and it's my commitment to go and find experts thought leaders and thinkers that can help you on your journey to make better decisions to change habits and to transform your mindset

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 嘿大家好，欢迎回到 On Purpose 节目。我知道你们每周回到这里是为了变得更快乐、更健康、更疗愈。我的承诺就是去寻找那些能帮助你们在人生旅途中做出更好决策、改变习惯并转变思维模式的专家、思想领袖和思考者。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: now I don't think there's potentially a more important topic than the one we're discussing today because I think raising good humans raising the future generation ation and learning how to improve ourselves in the process is probably one of the most life-changing Journeys that any of us ever go on

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我认为可能没有比我们要讨论的这个话题更重要的了，因为我认为养育善良的人类、养育下一代，并在这一过程中学习如何提升自我，可能是我们任何人所经历的最具人生转折意义的旅程之一。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and today's guest is someone who has so many great insights so many great takeaways so many wonderful methods that we can all apply in our daily lives to become better at being a good human and raising good humans in the process I'm speaking about Dr Alisa prman she's a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and the health healthare providers who care for them

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 今天的嘉宾拥有许多深刻的见解、极佳的要点和绝妙的方法，我们都可以将其应用到日常生活中，以便更好地成为一个善良的人，并在过程中养育出善良的人类。我说的就是 Alisa Pressman 博士，她是一位拥有近二十年与家庭及医疗护理人员共事经验的发展心理学家。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa is also the host of the podcast raising good humans if you're not listening already go ahead and subscribe and today we're talking about her new book that's out called the five principles of parenting your essential guide to raising good humans please welcome to on purpose Elisa prman

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa 也是播客《Raising Good Humans》（养育善良的人类）的主持人，如果你还没有收听，赶紧去订阅吧。今天我们要聊的是她的新书《育儿五原则：养育善良人类的必备指南》（The Five Principles of Parenting）。请欢迎 Alisa Pressman 来到 On Purpose 节目。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: Elisa it's great to have you here

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa，很高兴你能来这里。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I'm so thrilled to be here a thank you for being here honestly I'm uh really excited to dive in as I've been talking about and I wanted to get straight into this because I have so many questions I want to ask you and I want to start off with what I believe is the most important one a nd I feel in our society is often missed forgotten avoided not even a thought and the question is should everyone be a parent

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我太激动了。（注：此处原文 Jay Shetty 实际上在接管话语权）

[Jay Shetty]: 谢谢你能来，说实话，我真的很兴奋能深入探讨这个话题，我想直接切入正题，因为我有太多问题想问你了。我想从我认为最重要这一个问题开始，我觉得这个问题在我们的社会中经常被遗漏、遗忘、回避，甚至根本没人去想。这个问题就是：是否每个人都应该成为父母？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: whoa um I don't think we can presume to say what anybody should or shouldn't be other than the what whatever your definition of good human is and so if that entails bringing kids into this world if that's your calling I think you must do it in whatever way that works out but not everybody wants that and it's a it's you know it's a an assumption that we probably shouldn't be making

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 哇哦。嗯，我认为除了对于“善良的人类”的定义之外，我们不能擅自断言任何人应该或不应该成为什么。所以，如果这对你来说意味着将孩子带到这个世界上，如果这是你的召唤（Calling），我认为你就必须以任何可行的方式去实现它。但并不是每个人都想要这样，这（人人都要当父母）是一个我们也许不该做的假设。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: absolutely for those who want children or have always thought they've wanted children what would you encourage people to think about before diving in because I often feel that like so many things in society whether it's the degree we end up studying or the job we get out of college or getting married or having children it almost feels like we're on a conveyor belt and we don't really stop to pause and reflect which I know is one of your key principles we don't often stop and think shou ld we are we ready what are the qualifications what's useful and and we just dive in

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 当然。对于那些想要孩子或者一直认为自己想要孩子的人，你会鼓励他们在投入其中之前思考些什么？因为我常觉得，就像社会中的许多事情一样——无论是我们要攻读的学位，还是大学毕业后找的工作，亦或是结婚生子——感觉就像我们在一条传送带（Conveyor Belt）上。我们并没有真正停下来暂停和反思——我知道这是你的核心原则之一——我们不常停下来思考：我们应该这样做吗？我们准备好了吗？需要什么资格？什么是有用的？我们就这样一头扎进去了。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and it's interesting that you know and I've heard many people talk about this I think I spoke to Kristen Bell and Dax about this at one point and they were talking about how like you just get to come back from a hospital with a baby I know there's no exam there's no test and like you spend all these years studying for a degree or you spend a couple of years practicing how to drive or whatever it may be but all of a sudden you have a baby without a license and nothing else yeah

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 有趣的是，你知道——我也听很多人谈论过这个，我想我曾和 Kristen Bell 以及 Dax 聊过这一点——他们谈到你就这样带着一个婴儿从医院回家了。我知道这没有考试，没有测试。就像你花了那么多年攻读学位，或者花了几年时间练习开车之类的，但突然之间，你在没有执照、没有任何其他东西的情况下就有了一个婴儿。是的。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and so what are some of the things you'd encourage people to think about even before becoming a parent that you think would help them in the process of being a parent

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 那么，甚至在成为父母之前，你会鼓励人们去思考哪些你认为能在育儿过程中帮助到他们的事情呢？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I mean ideally we all are thinking about this before we become parents because it just that reflection of like how did I get here how do we come to be who we are which I think is the sort of Crux of what developmental science is is how do we get to be who we are and what then happened in that process that I want to bring to Parenting and what do I want to let go of

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我的意思是，理想情况下，我们在成为父母之前都在思考这个问题。因为这种反思——比如“我是怎么走到这一步的？”、“我们是如何成为今天的我们的？”——我认为这正是发展科学（Developmental Science）的关键所在，即我们是如何成为今天的样子的？在这个过程中发生了什么是我想要带入到育儿中的？又有什么是我想要放手的？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and if you take the time to reflect then you can be intentional about your parenting so the idea that we can do this before we have kids if you are in a position to talk to your partner about that and really think through that talk to yourself about that you can have a mission statement for how you want to be as a parent it's not like what your kid's going to be like cuz you have no idea what your kids's going to be like that's a fantasy that you can decide but we we can't they are whatever seed is planted is planted and that flower blooms but we have so much capacity to be intentional and so that reflection before you're even trying to have kids is so beneficial and it's actually linked with secure attachment relationships

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 如果你花时间去反思，你就可以在育儿上做到“有意识（Intentional）”。所以，那种我们可以在生孩子之前就做这件事的想法——如果你有条件与你的伴侣讨论这个问题，真正想清楚，或者与你自己对话——你可以为你想要成为什么样的父母制定一份“使命宣言（Mission Statement）”。这并不是关于你的孩子会是什么样，因为你根本不知道你的孩子会是什么样，你可以决定孩子是什么样只是一种幻想，我们做不到。种下什么种子就是什么种子，花朵会自然绽放。但我们有巨大的能力去做到“有意识”。所以，甚至在尝试生孩子之前的这种反思是非常有益的，而且它实际上与“安全依恋关系（Secure Attachment Relationships）”息息相关。

章节 2：安全依恋与自我反思——如何打破代际循环

📝 本节摘要：

在这一章节中，Dr. Alisa Pressman 揭示了一个令人惊讶的研究结论：父母的“自我反思”能力与孩子能否形成“安全依恋关系”直接相关。她指出，虽然只有约 65% 的人来自安全依恋的原生家庭，但通过反思我们是如何被爱、以及如何经历爱的，剩下的 35% 依然有机会打破代际循环，将原本可能无意识的“自动驾驶”模式转变为积极的安全依恋。Jay Shetty 则替许多已经为人父母的听众表达了心声：如果早点知道这些就好了。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: oh wow talk to me about that connection I didn't realize that

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 哇哦，跟我讲讲这种联系吧，我都没意识到这一点。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: yeah so one of the things in the research on human development is that having a secure attachment relationship with your child or with you know as the child has with one caregiver and that is you know a whole other or probably part of this conversation it's so deeply protective it buffers the impact of trauma it's so important and not everybody grew up with that

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 是的，人类发展研究中的一个发现是，与你的孩子建立一种安全依恋关系（Secure Attachment Relationship），或者说孩子与至少一位照料者拥有这种关系——这完全是另一个话题，或者说是本次对话的一部分——它是如此具有深度的保护性，它能缓冲创伤（Trauma）带来的影响。这非常重要，但并非每个人都是在这种环境中长大的。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so about 65% of us came from secure attachment relationships if we didn't and we reflect back and we think through what was going on how we came to be who we are how we learned how to be loved how we experienced love how we gave love we then have a much higher chance of turning What could would have been just an autopilot to a different kind of relationship into this secure attachment

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 大约 65% 的人来自安全依恋关系。如果我们不属于这部分人，但我们回过头去反思，想清楚当时发生了什么，我们是如何成为今天的样子的，我们是如何学会被爱的，我们是如何体验爱的，以及我们是如何给予爱的。那么，我们就有了高得多的几率，将原本可能只是“自动驾驶（Autopilot）”模式的关系，转变为这种安全依恋关系。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: now I know where everyone's thinking right now they're thinking I wish you told me this five years ago you would have saved me right like I feel like a lot of our listeners may have already had children and and it's natural again I'm not judging anyone it's it's a it's such a part of our community and society

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我知道大家现在在想什么，他们在想：“你要是五年前告诉我就好了，你就救了我了，对吧？” 我觉得我们很多听众可能已经有孩子了。这很自然，再次强调，我不是在评判任何人，这是我们社区和社会中很常见的一部分。

章节 3：告别完美主义——“修复”比“不犯错”更重要

📝 本节摘要：

在本章节中，对话深入探讨了父母普遍存在的愧疚感与羞耻感。Dr. Alisa Pressman 提出了一个核心观点：依恋关系是动态的，而非一劳永逸。她巧妙地运用“肌肉生长”的比喻——就像肌肉需要微小的撕裂才能变得更强壮一样，亲子关系也需要经历“破裂（Rupture）”与“修复（Repair）”的过程才能建立真正的韧性。试图做一个完美的、能“修复”孩子所有痛苦的父母，不仅不可能，反而对孩子的成长有害。Jay Shetty 对此深有共鸣，指出用于自我羞辱的能量其实完全可以转化为改变当下的动力。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: what have you seen are some of the biggest mistakes people carry around as guilt and shame when their when they have become parents

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 你见过的人们在成为父母后，作为愧疚和羞耻背负的最大的错误有哪些？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: well I think I so importantly attachment relationship are Dynamic so you aren't just like it used to be we used to think like you're e you know you have a baby you develop the secure attachment it's like a bond and that's it but we know now it's Dynamic and so if you have a 5-year-old or a 16-year-old or a 35-year-old you can still grow that healthy attachment relationship so you can change and that's what your audience knows all the time

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 嗯，我认为非常重要的一点是，依恋关系是动态的。所以这不像我们要么……你知道，过去我们认为你生了个孩子，建立了安全依恋，就像是一种纽带，然后就结束了。但我们现在知道它是动态的。所以无论你有一个 5 岁的、16 岁的还是 35 岁的孩子，你仍然可以培养这种健康的依恋关系，所以你是可以改变的，这也是你的听众一直都知道的。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but I think that shame is from thinking like I wasn't there enough there's shame in not being able to fix whatever your child's going through and what I hope everybody like gets from certainly this conversation is that our job is not to fix it's to be there and that's what secure attachment is even in your adult relationships it's like who can sit with me through all of these experience expences through these feelings because we're not like the idea of being happy isn't really about always being happy it's about knowing you can come back from whatever it is that you're going through and you will be happy again

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 但我认为这种羞耻感来自于这种想法：“我陪伴得不够多”。还有一种羞耻感来自于无法“修复”孩子正在经历的一切。我希望每个人都能从这次对话中领悟到的是：我们的工作不是去“修复”，而是“在场（Be there）”。这就是安全依恋的真谛，即使在你的成人关系中也是如此——即谁能陪我坐下来，通过所有这些经历，度过这些感受。因为我们不是……快乐的概念并不是指一直快乐，而是知道你可以从正在经历的任何事情中走出来，并且你会再次快乐起来。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and if our kids experience the range of things that come their way and they know that they have someone sort of sitting by their side they end up in this relationship that is securely attached and it's not not like oneand done and if it didn't you know that's the thing that I think is the trickiest is feeling like I'm responsible for my child's constant happiness I have to feel ashamed if I wasn't there for every moment or if I couldn't fix that feeling which you can't as you know

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 如果我们的孩子经历了向他们袭来的各种事情，并且知道有人坐在他们身边，他们最终就会处于这种安全依恋的关系中。这并不是一次性的。如果没有这样做……你知道，我认为最棘手的事情就是觉得“我要为孩子持续的快乐负责”，觉得“如果我没有每一刻都在场，或者如果我无法修复那种感觉（正如你所知，你做不到），我就必须感到羞耻”。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and so how do you carry that weight and almost loosen that control that is naturally it feels so got Instinct correct right it doesn't feel like that's a bad idea it feels like that's the best thing that's what you were made for and then you're failing at it and so how how you how do you do what you just said how do you carry that weight at the same time as recognized that you need to put it down

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 那么，你如何背负这种重担，同时又能放松那种控制欲呢？这种控制欲天生感觉是如此符合直觉且正确的，对吧？它感觉不像是个坏主意，反而感觉是最好的事情，是你生来就该做的，然后你却搞砸了。所以，你是如何做到你刚才所说的？你如何在背负这种重担的同时，意识到你需要放下它？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I mean I think that that's where the idea of repair and the what we know about repair air comes in is that in the same way that we build muscles like you need tiny little ruptures in the muscles to grow stronger muscles we have to have tiny moments of disrepair of not being exactly the right parent of not being able to fix the feeling of the feeling being really really hard of the experience being a fail in order to grow stronger relationships

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我想这就是“修复（Repair）”的概念以及我们要讲的内容切入的地方。这就像我们锻炼肌肉一样——你需要肌肉中微小的撕裂（Ruptures）才能长出更强壮的肌肉。我们也必须拥有微小的“失修（Disrepair）”时刻——即没有做一个完全正确的父母、无法修复那种感觉、感觉真的很难受、经历是一次失败——为了生长出更牢固的关系。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so I think taking the weight off is much more easy or comes by more easily when you remind yourself like I'm actually building this muscle for my child and for me so every mistake is is to me this like okay I just because you have this relationship because you're invested because you're intentional you're going to blow it you're not going to be able to fix it you're going to feel like oh my god did I ruin my kid and no you invested in resilience build building because you're there

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以我认为，当你提醒自己“我实际上是在为我的孩子和我自己锻炼这块肌肉”时，卸下重担会容易得多，或者说更容易实现。所以每一个错误对我来说就像是……好吧，正因为你拥有这段关系，因为你投入了，因为你是有意识的，你会搞砸它，你会无法修复它，你会觉得“天哪，我毁了我的孩子吗？”不，你是在投资于“韧性建设（Resilience Building）”，因为你在那里。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so I think that lifts the weight of not only can you not be perfect and not only can you not fix everything but it's actually worse for your kids

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以我认为这减轻了负担：不仅你不可能完美，不仅你不能修复一切，而且（如果你试图那样做）这对你的孩子其实更糟。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: wow yeah I think when I'm listening to I'm thinking it takes almost the same amount of energy to shame yourself as it does to shift yourself

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 哇，是的。我在听的时候在想，羞辱自己所消耗的能量，几乎和改变（Shift）自己所消耗的能量是一样的。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: oh wow yeah right this idea of I'm going to sit here and keep replaying the mistake I made and the wrong thing I said and how I messed up in this moment or I do reflect on that as you would say I do reflect on that and now I know what I need to say next time and what I need to say now and how to behave differently and that takes the same amount of time it takes the same amount of energy it takes the same amount of effort but our negativity bias naturally takes us into that it's like a spiral Spiral yeah and just self judgment self-criticism that we then pass down on to our children as they see us do that

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 噢哇，是的，对。这种想法——我坐在这里，不断重播我犯的错、我说错的话、我在那一刻是如何搞砸的；或者像你会说的那样，我确实对此进行了反思，现在我知道下次该说什么，现在该说什么，以及如何表现得不同。这花费相同的时间，消耗相同的能量，付出相同的努力。但我们的消极偏见（Negativity Bias）自然地把我们带入那种状态，就像一个螺旋，是的，螺旋。仅仅是自我评判、自我批评，当我们这样做被孩子看到时，我们就把这些传递给了他们。

章节 4：拒绝过度矫正——制定你的“育儿使命宣言”

📝 本节摘要：

在本章节中，Jay Shetty 提出了“礼物与缺憾（Gifts and Gaps）”的概念——我们往往试图填补童年的遗憾，或复制童年的美好。Dr. Alisa 指出，这种心态容易导致“过度矫正（Overcorrecting）”，例如因缺乏关爱而变得过度溺爱，从而忽略了必要的界限。为了避免这种情况并进行有效的自我反思，她介绍了一个“5分钟练习”：写下你希望孩子将来如何向孙辈描述你，从中提取关键词作为你的“育儿使命宣言（Mission Statement）”。这颗“北极星”将帮助父母在“在场”与“入侵”之间找到平衡，并定期核对自己的教育方向是否出现了偏差。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yes yeah when you when you were saying that I was thinking about I almost feel like when I speak to a lot of parents as well and I speak to my community and audience there's a feeling of I went through something I never want my kids to go through that right or I didn't get this opportunity I really want them to get this opportunity so our life becomes this mirror projection of what I've called before the gifts and gaps in our life so if our parents gave us gifts we we want them to have those same gifts and if our parents left gaps we want to fill those gaps for the kids

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，对。当你在说那个的时候，我在想……我几乎觉得，当我与许多父母交谈，以及与我的社区和听众交流时，有一种感觉是：“我经历过某种事情，我绝不想让我的孩子也经历那个，对吧？” 或者“我没有得到这个机会，我真的希望他们能得到这个机会。” 所以我们的生活变成了我之前所称的我们生命中“礼物与缺憾（Gifts and Gaps）”的镜像投射。所以如果我们的父母给了我们要“礼物”，我们就希望孩子也能拥有同样的礼物；如果我们的父母留下了“缺憾”，我们就想为孩子填补那些缺憾。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and so in that mindset how does that mindset create challenges and issues and how do we actually tweak and refine that

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 那么在这种心态下，这种心态是如何制造挑战和问题的？我们又该如何切实地调整和优化它呢？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I mean I think we overcorrect and so if we're reflective and we can say okay this is the thing I really didn't have and I really want my kids to have but let me be aware that that doesn't mean that I should forget about for example boundaries you know if I didn't receive a lot of affection and love and connection am I going to be so worried that I'm not giving enough of that to my child that I'm scared of the limits and boundaries that are necessary for their safety

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我的意思是，我认为我们会“过度矫正（Overcorrect）”。所以如果我们进行反思，我们可以说：“好吧，这是我真的没有得到的东西，我真的希望我的孩子能拥有，但我要意识到，这并不意味着我应该忘记——比如——界限。” 你知道，如果我没有得到很多的喜爱、关爱和连接，我会不会因为太担心给孩子的不够多，以至于害怕设定那些对他们的安全必不可少的限制和界限？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I think that happens all the time and so it's all middle path you know like if we notice that something really really matters to us can we let it matter without overcorrecting and forgetting about these other things

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我认为这经常发生。所以这都是关于“中庸之道（Middle Path）”，你知道，就像如果我们注意到某件事对我们来说真的非常重要，我们能不能让它保持重要，同时又不至于矫枉过正而忘记了其他事情？

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yeah and that's so hard I know it's such a challenge like I feel like that controller inside of us and and I feel that there's such a experience that we're having of what we're trying to heal in our children is what we're trying to heal in ourselves and so there's this constant belief that I think I'm trying to heal them but really I'm just preaching to myself and processing something internal but our self-awareness is so warped sometimes or hidden that we can't see that we think we're doing it just for the benefit how do you break that Veil like how do you kind of how do you reflect effectively I think that's the question I'm asking effective reflecting yeah what is effective reflection

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，这太难了。我知道这极具挑战性。我觉得就像我们内心的那个控制者……而且我觉得我们正在经历这样一种体验：我们试图在孩子身上治愈的，其实是我们试图在自己身上治愈的东西。所以有一种持续的信念，我觉得我在试图治愈他们，但实际上我只是在对自己说教，处理某些内在的东西。但我们的自我意识有时是如此扭曲或隐蔽，以至于我们看不清这一点，我们以为我们这样做纯粹是为了孩子好。你如何揭开那层“面纱”？你如何……你如何进行有效的反思？我想这就是我要问的问题：有效的反思。是的，什么是有效的反思？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: because I think we can all Ponder and maybe our reflection takes us as far as yeah you know my parents like always forgot my birthday I won't forget my kids birthday I'll I'll do it right or yeah you know my my dad never turned up to my sports games and so if my kids sports like I'm not going to miss a thing yeah yeah so like that's good but but what is the most effective version of reflection that makes it such a big part of your five principles

[译文] [Jay Shetty]（接上文）: 因为我认为我们都会思考，但也许多我们的反思只停留在这种程度：“是的，你知道，我父母总是忘记我的生日，我绝不会忘记我孩子的生日，我会做对的。” 或者，“是的，你知道，我爸从来没出现在我的体育比赛上，所以如果是我的孩子比赛，我一场都不会错过。” 是的，是的，这样很好，但这其中最有效的反思版本是什么？是什么让它成为你五大原则中如此重要的一部分？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so I think if you can write down like set a timer and for 5 minutes and write down the story of who you are as a parent that your child's going to explain to their grandchildren oh wow just five minutes who are who are they describing and then Circle the words that really keep coming up and make that your mission like this is my mission statement as a parent and I now know sort of my North Star and within that framework I'm going to reflect and decide if it's still working or am I overcorrecting

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以我认为，如果你能写下来——比如设一个定时器，就 5 分钟——写下你的孩子将来会如何向他们的孙辈解释“你是一个怎样的父母”的故事。噢哇，只需五分钟。他们在描述谁？然后圈出那些反复出现的词，把那作为你的使命。比如：“这就是我作为父母的使命宣言（Mission Statement）。” 这样我就在某种程度上知道了我的“北极星（North Star）”。在这个框架内，我要去反思并决定：它是否仍然有效？还是我正在过度矫正？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so like for example if one of the things that keeps coming up is I want to be present I want to be present I want to be present and the way you're translating it is you're not missing a game to the point where your child doesn't know how to enjoy themselves without the audience to the point where it feels like they are so the center of your universe that they are worried that you are not a person without them then you would want to Pivot and say I can be present without being invasive you know

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 举个例子，如果反复出现的一点是“我想要在场（Present），我想要在场，我想要在场”，而你转化它的方式是一场比赛都不落下，以至于到了你的孩子不知道如何在没有观众的情况下享受乐趣的地步，或者到了他们感觉自己是你宇宙的中心、甚至担心如果你没有他们就不再是一个完整的人的地步。那么你就需要调整方向，告诉自己：“我可以‘在场’，而不必变得‘具有入侵性（Invasive）’。” 你懂吧？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but I think that that's the the easiest way is to check into how is this I mean in a scientific paper you'd say how's this operationalized and in life I would genuinely do that exercise regularly like kind of every year and check in and the other thing that I think is very interesting about it is if you figure out kind of what your mission statement is like in this as this parent or in this household if you're doing it with your co-parent or again you can keep it to yourself but as your kids get older if you say to them my mission in this as a parent is this you know these three things were really important to me what do you think my mission or our mission statement is

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 但我认为这是最简单的方法来检查这个……我的意思是，在科学论文中你会说“这是如何被操作化的（Operationalized）”，而在生活中，我会真心建议定期做这个练习，比如每年一次，以此来检查。而且我认为另一件非常有趣的事情是，如果你弄清楚了作为父母或在这个家庭中你的使命宣言是什么——如果你是和你的共同养育者一起做，或者即使你只留给自己看——当你的孩子长大一些，如果你对他们说：“我作为父母的使命是这个，你知道，这三件事对我来说真的很重要。你觉得我的使命或者我们的使命宣言是什么？”

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and if your kids come back to you as they're older and they're and you're like kindness empathy and presence and they're like education persistence and money that's okay yeah but then it's a moment to say huh there's one of two things happening here either I'm not parenting in the way that I mean to cuz the messaging is clearly not getting across or I'm not honest with myself about what I'm really going for cuz there's no right or wrong no but it's more like how do I keep checking in with it so that that reflection is taken into action

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 如果你的孩子长大后回来告诉你……比如你自己想的是“善良、同理心和在场”，而他们却说是“教育、坚持和金钱”。那也没关系，是的。但这就是一个时刻，你要说：“哈，这儿发生了两件事中的一件：要么我没有按照我想要的方式去育儿，因为这个信息显然没有传达过去；要么我对自己真正的追求并不诚实。” 因为这没有对错之分，不，但这更多是关于：我该如何持续核对它，以便让那种反思真正转化为行动？

章节 5：理解天生气质——“兰花”与“蒲公英”儿童

📝 本节摘要：

为什么同样的育儿方式对两个孩子会产生截然不同的效果？Dr. Alisa 引入了心理学中经典的“兰花与蒲公英（Orchids and Dandelions）”隐喻：有些孩子像“蒲公英”，只要有基本的阳光雨露（爱与界限）就能在任何环境中茁壮成长；而有些孩子则是“兰花”，对环境高度敏感，需要特定的条件才能绽放。本章的核心在于探讨“拟合度（Goodness of fit）”——即父母如何调整自己的养育方式来匹配孩子的天生气质，而不是试图改变孩子本质的敏感度。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: it's so interesting how two people can have the exact same experience with the same parents yet respond so differently yeah I played a lot of sports growing up and my mom would be taking care of my sister and rarely would my dad show up and I took that and I have a good relationship with my dad now and I took that as a sign of I got to decide who I wanted to be and it's been probably one of the best things that ever happened to me that my dad didn't show up because I had no one to impress apart from myself

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 有趣的是，两个人明明拥有同样的父母、经历完全相同的体验，反应却如此不同。是的。我从小参加很多体育运动，我妈妈要照顾我妹妹，所以我爸爸很少露面。但我接受了这一点，我和我父亲现在的关系很好。我把这看作一个信号，意味着我可以自己决定我想成为谁。这可能是我身上发生过的最好的事情之一——因为除了我自己，我不需要取悦任何人。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yes and I love that because till this day I make decisions based on not completely I have challenges too but I I make whole wholly I will reflect on decisions as to how do I feel about this because I'm the person that I I have to live with and I think that's a one of my favorite qualities that I've been able to gain in life but I also know a lot of people who've been through the same thing and they've just feel abandoned they feel discouraged they feel like no one was ever there for them they they weren't able to learn self- validation in the process and it's almost like as parents when you're trying to overcorrect it's like you don't know how a child is going to respond to your presence or your absence

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，我喜欢这一点，因为直到今天，我做决定时——虽然不完全是，我也有挑战，但我基本上会反思：我对这件事感觉如何？因为我是那个必须与自己共处的人。我认为这是我在生活中获得的最喜欢的品质之一。但我也认识很多经历过同样事情的人，他们只感到被遗弃，感到气馁，觉得从来没有人支持他们，他们没能在过程中学会自我确认（Self-validation）。这就像作为父母，当你试图“过度矫正”时，你其实并不知道孩子会对你的在场或缺席做出怎样的反应。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: yes and also just to your point about the different responses and I write about this in the book and is a big part of the literature on developmental science but temperament really is real and I like how Dr Thomas boisey talks about it as orchids dandelions and then later um folks said t they studied tulips but it's like a way of looking at how the environment influences you that's kind of you're born this way right you come into this world has nothing to do with anything that your parents have done you you are responding to to the wind in a different way than the next child

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 是的，就你提到的不同反应而言——我在书中也写到了这一点，这也是发展科学文献中的重要部分——气质（Temperament）是真实存在的。我喜欢 Thomas Boyce 博士将其描述为“兰花（Orchids）”和“蒲公英（Dandelions）”——后来还有人说他们研究了郁金香——这是一种观察环境如何影响你的方式。这就像是你生来如此，对吧？你来到这个世界，这与你父母所做的任何事情都无关，你只是以不同于下一个孩子的方式对风做出反应。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so an orchid is going to thrive in certain sunlight water and soil but we've all or maybe not all of us but I certainly have tried to raise orchids and they're like it's like a stump yes because I just wasn't I wasn't sensitive enough to that particular flower's need and so I I learned about the plants that needed less and I could fill my house with those but you can't do that with kids

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以，一株“兰花”只有在特定的阳光、水分和土壤下才会茁壮成长。但我们都——或者也许不是所有人，但我肯定试过养兰花，结果它们就像……就像个树桩一样。是的，因为我对那朵特定花朵的需求不够敏感。所以我去了解那些需要较少照顾的植物，我可以把家里堆满那些植物，但你不能对孩子这样做。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so but like a dandelion child and these are real like they studied these Orchid babies for real like as babies not as actual flowers but just label them as orchids and dandelions and a dandelion is probably going to grow with just like your basic sunlight water and soil your basic love connection and some boundaries and rules and they're they're going to go to the game not go to the game it's they they're going to be fine

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 而像“蒲公英”一样的孩子——这些都是真实的，他们真的研究了这些“兰花宝宝”，当然是指婴儿不是真的花，只是把他们标记为兰花和蒲公英——一个蒲公英孩子可能只需要基本的阳光、水分和土壤就能生长，也就是基本的爱、连接以及一些界限和规则。不管你去不去看比赛，他们都会没事的。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but if you if you have a kid that isn't thriving and that's happening then it's also it's very courageous it's very vulnerable but asking ourselves like what do I need to give in order for this flower to bloom and it's going to be different for every child so it's not like you have one way to parent and that's it but you know and it's not as exhausting as it sounds it's more just like okay this one cuz you see it pretty quickly like as you get to know your kids you're like this one notices the sound of the air conditioning more easily this one does not notice if anything is going on like they're just sort of moving around the world and nothing's getting to them other kids are like this tag is itchy it's temperament it's not because you know the parent was over coddling

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 但如果你有一个孩子长势不好，而这正在发生，那么这需要很大的勇气，也非常脆弱，但我们要问自己：“为了让这朵花绽放，我需要给予什么？”这对每个孩子来说都是不同的。所以并不是说你只有一种育儿方式就够了。但这并不像听起来那么累人，更多的是像……好吧，其实你很快就能看出来。当你了解你的孩子时，你会发现：“这一个更容易注意到空调的声音；那一个根本注意不到周围发生了什么，他们就像是在世界上游荡，什么都干扰不了他们。” 而另一些孩子会说：“这个标签很痒。” 这是气质问题，并不是因为父母过度娇惯。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: it's like it you can amplify these things of course like you could take a kid who's very sensitive ignore their needs ignore their needs ignore their needs and they're probably going to be extra needy or you can take a kid who's extra sensitive and turn that sensitivity into beautiful empathy and creativity and curiosity and thoughtfulness but you're still dealing with the same sensitivity

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 当然，你可以放大这些特质。比如，如果你有一个非常敏感的孩子，你忽略他们的需求，忽略他们的需求，再忽略他们的需求，他们可能会变得特别黏人（Needy）。或者，你可以把一个特别敏感的孩子的那种敏感性，转化为美丽的同理心、创造力、好奇心和体贴。但你要知道，你应对的始终是同一种敏感性。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: I love that I I I so appreciate the Nuance of that and the sensitivity of that because I think that's where we trip ourselves up where it's like oh that's the lesson I learned I don't need to go to any games they'll learn Independence because that's what I learn right they are a different they're an orid or whatever else it may be and that lack of sensitivity and that lack of connectivity with them and noticing their temperament and noticing their environment that they need is is often what happens

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我喜欢这个，我非常欣赏其中的细微差别（Nuance）和敏感度。因为我认为这正是我们绊倒自己的地方，就像是：“哦，这就是我学到的教训，我不需要去任何比赛，他们会学会独立的，因为那就是我学到的。” 对吧？但他们是不同的，他们是一株兰花或者其他什么。那种缺乏敏感度、缺乏与他们的连接、没有注意到他们的气质以及他们所需环境的情况，往往就是问题所在。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and also if you feel like because I I would say an example that's that happens a lot is if you have a kid who's more sensitive and you're just like kind of a dandelion it's annoying you know you have a have to take a lot more care and a lot more time but you could have one parent who's like I'm so sensitive they're so sensitive I'm going to be so attuned that maybe it's too much maybe maybe they won't learn you know so it's again back to paying attention then coming to the middle of it

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 而且，如果你觉得……我会说一个经常发生的例子：如果你有一个比较敏感的孩子，而你自己像个“蒲公英”，这会让你觉得很烦，你知道，你必须花更多的精力和时间。但也可能有这样的父母，他们会想：“我很敏感，孩子也很敏感，我要保持高度同频（Attuned）。” 那可能就太多了，也许孩子反而学不到东西。你知道，所以这又回到了“关注”，然后找到中间点。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and saying okay one of us let's say you have two parents and you can say one of us is able to notice those sensitive moments we're able to sort of be attuned so I'm going to pay less attention to that skill that I have so naturally and I'm going to focus on not panicking when my kid is uncomfortable but maybe the more dandelion like parent is going to say I think I've got the not worrying so much about them and thinking they can handle it so I'm going to focus on being more attuned to what's going on for them

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 然后说，好吧——假设有两个家长——你可以说：“我们其中一个能注意到那些敏感时刻，我们能做到同频。所以我要稍微减少对我这种天赋技能的关注，我要专注于当孩子不舒服时不要惊慌。” 而那个更像“蒲公英”的家长可能会说：“我觉得我已经掌握了‘不那么担心他们、相信他们能搞定’这一块，所以我要专注于对他们正在发生的事情更加同频。”

章节 6：沟通的艺术——像空乘人员一样管理神经系统

📝 本节摘要：

沟通不仅仅是语言的交流，更是能量的传递。Jay Shetty 询问不同年龄段是否存在特定的沟通方式。Dr. Alisa 指出，对于 0-5 岁的孩子，肢体语言和神经系统的状态远比语言重要。她提出了一个生动的“空乘人员（Flight Attendant）”比喻：就像乘客在遇到气流颠簸时会观察空乘人员的表情来判断是否安全一样，孩子也在时刻观察父母的反应。如果父母试图用语言安慰孩子“别怕”，但自己的身体却处于恐慌状态，这种“混合信息”会让孩子更加困惑。因此，高效沟通的秘诀在于：少说话，多关注自身状态，并且在必须说话时，确保你的言语与你的真实感受一致。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: are there different forms of communicating with children that work at different ages in their Journey like are there certain types of communication or forms of communication that are more effective between Z and five 5 and 10 10 and 15 or or anything like that or how how do you see that communication evolving over ages I guess

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 在孩子成长的旅途中，是否有针对不同年龄段的更有效的沟通方式？比如在 0 到 5 岁、5 到 10 岁、10 到 15 岁之间，有没有某种特定类型的沟通或沟通形式更有效？或者你是如何看待沟通随着年龄演变的？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I think the first five years there's a lot more physical communication even though of course we want to use our words because the more exposure to language you have the more likely you are to have you know sophisticated language but physical touch is so effective and a lot of times we try to talk young children like out of feelings and those are the times that I really want to encourage people to let their nervous system do the talking

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我认为在最初的五年里，肢体沟通（Physical Communication）要多得多。虽然我们当然也想使用语言，因为接触语言越多，孩子就越可能拥有复杂的语言能力。但肢体接触是非常有效的。很多时候，我们试图用语言把年幼的孩子从某种情绪中“说出来”，而在那些时刻，我真的想鼓励人们让他们的神经系统（Nervous System）去“说话”。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so you just kind of put your hand on your heart take a breath remind yourself that whatever is going on for them they're safe they're just upset and so you're lending them your nervous system but you're not telling them you're not like you're safe you're going to be okay you're just upset that you didn't get a blue cup and you really wanted it you're more like reminding yourself of that quietly you don't need to use words and then over time you can use more words but in general we use too many words I say I say using so many words

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以你只需要把手放在胸口，深吸一口气，提醒自己：无论他们正在经历什么，他们是安全的，他们只是难过。这样你就是在把你的神经系统“借”给他们。但你不需要告诉他们，你不需要说：“你是安全的，你会没事的，你只是因为没有拿到蓝色的杯子而难过，你真的很想要它。” 你更多的是在安静地提醒你自己这一点。你不需要使用语言。随着时间的推移，你可以使用更多的词汇，但总的来说，我们用了太多的词汇。我说真的，我们话太多了。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: wow that's interesting and and the reason for that is because our kids only have so much capacity to listen and a lot of the things that that they're learning from us are watching and borrowing our nervous system so rather than saying you know whether or not something is worthy of freaking out about or telling them how to feel they could just see that it's not scaring you so instead of saying don't be scared they can be scared but they're watching you not be scared

[译文] [Jay Shetty]（此处原文应为Alisa继续发言，Jay插话表示赞同）: 哇，这很有趣。

[Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 原因在于，我们的孩子只有有限的倾听能力。他们从我们这里学到的很多东西，是通过观察和“借用”我们的神经系统得来的。所以，与其去说某件事是否值得抓狂，或者告诉他们该怎么去感受，不如让他们看到这件事并没有吓到你。所以与其说“别害怕”，不如让他们感到害怕的同时，看着你并没有害怕。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and like a flight attendant I mean this is this shows you my issues but like I am not a great flyer though I fly a lot and I always choose the seat close enough to the flight attendant because I just want to see how they're doing and then if there's turbulence I feel like I they have enough experience in this world in this gig of flying that if it were worrisome I would pick up on it and it's the same thing if our kids are looking at us come on like so we don't have to say so many words but we do have have to pay attention to what's going on inside of us

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 这就像空乘人员（Flight Attendant）。这暴露了我的问题，但我虽然经常飞，却不是个擅长飞行的人。我总是选择离空乘人员足够近的座位，因为我就想看看他们的状态。如果有气流颠簸（Turbulence），我觉得他们在这个世界、在这个飞行工作中拥有足够的经验，如果情况真的令人担忧，我会从他们身上察觉到。这和我们的孩子看着我们是一样的。拜托，所以我们不必说那么多话，但我们确实必须关注我们内心正在发生什么。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: that's such a good example that is so interesting I'm like I I don't I fly a lot I I'm not afraid of flying but if there's bad turbulence that's the first thing I do do right is I try and look at how they're doing and and it doesn't matter whether they turn on the thing and say hey there's turbulence put your belts on I'm watching you're looking at their face yeah you're looking at their face body language so real yeah

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 这是一个极好的例子，太有趣了。我就像……我不……我经常飞，我不怕坐飞机，但如果有严重的颠簸，那是我的第一反应，对吧？就是试图看看他们的状态。无论他们是否打开广播说“嘿，有气流，请系好安全带”都无关紧要，我在观察。你在看他们的脸，是的，你在看他们的脸和肢体语言。太真实了，是的。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: wow that's such a great example and you never think about that because you think it's the word that do the communication and and you're so right that that often you don't believe the words or you don't feel the words

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 哇，这真是个很棒的例子。你从没想过这一点，因为你以为是“词语”在进行沟通。你说得太对了，往往是你自己都不相信那些话，或者你并没有感觉到那些话。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: exactly and I want our kids to believe us and so if we are going to use words we have to believe them too like if you said no no no I'm not upset but you're upset it's a mixed message and so over time your kids aren't quite they're not going to believe that they can read people properly cuz it's like what's really going on so I think part of it is fewer words and then when you use words tell the truth

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 正是。我希望我们的孩子相信我们。所以如果我们打算使用语言，我们也必须相信这些话。比如如果你说：“不不不，我没生气。”但你其实很生气，这就是一个“混合信息（Mixed Message）”。久而久之，你的孩子就不太会相信他们能正确地解读他人了，因为这感觉像是：“到底发生了什么？” 所以我认为部分关键在于：少说话，而当你使用语言时，说真话。

章节 7：重新定义管教——接纳感受，规范行为

📝 本节摘要：

Jay Shetty 提出了听众最关心的两个话题：管教（Discipline）与鼓励。Dr. Alisa Pressman 给出了关于管教的黄金法则：“所有的感受都是受欢迎的，但并非所有的行为都是（All feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not）”。她指出，管教的本质不是惩罚，而是“教学（Teaching）”。本章深入剖析了三种育儿风格：放纵型（Permissive/Best Friend）、专制型（Authoritarian/Fear-based）以及最推荐的“权威型（Authoritative/Middle Path）”。Dr. Alisa 强调，设定界限并不意味着破坏亲子关系，父母需要有能力承受孩子当下的不悦，因为这种界限能为孩子带来长远的安全感与社会适应力。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: I asked a couple of people around what questions they'd be interested in asking and I think the two big things that came up which I'm sure you hear a lot of were were discipline and encouragement like the two opposite things it's like this seems like two common parents activities are disciplining and and trying to encourage or or nurture and so I want to talk about each of those

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我问了周围的一些人他们有兴趣问什么问题，我想出现的两个大话题——我相信你也经常听到——是“管教（Discipline）”和“鼓励（Encouragement）”，就像两个相反的事物。这似乎是父母最常见的两种活动：管教，以及试图鼓励或培养。所以我想分别谈谈这两个方面。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: let's start with disciplining what is the what is the right approach to discipline in a way as you talk about creates resilience yeah as opposed to I guess if we had a mission statement for disciplining traditionally it would be to get things right to do things well to know what is good and bad I feel those would be traditional metrics of discipline yeah what would you say the new metrics and and how does healthy what is healthy discip look like to lead to resilience

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 让我们从管教开始。什么是正确的管教方式？那种正如你所说的能创造“韧性（Resilience）”的方式。相比之下，我想如果我们有一个传统的管教使命宣言，那就是把事情做对、把事情做好、知道什么是好什么是坏。我觉得这些是管教的传统指标。是的，你会说新的指标是什么？以及健康的管教是什么样子的，才能通向韧性？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: okay I feel like discipline is so controversial um but I think of it as all feelings are welcome all behaviors are not so if I had to sum it up and I think we do think of discipline as punishment versus teaching and it's teaching and um if we're teaching how to move through the world and if we're teaching kind of what's expected what are boundaries and they're real like they are for your emotional and physical safety MH and you're not just doing them to control but you actually are like no this is a big deal because it actually influences your growth and development it's not just for my entertainment then your kids trust you a little bit more and the relationship is stronger

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 好的，我觉得管教是个非常有争议的话题。但我认为它的核心是：所有的感受都是受欢迎的，但并非所有的行为都是。如果非要我总结的话，我认为我们确实常把管教看作是“惩罚（Punishment）”而非“教学（Teaching）”，但它其实是教学。如果我们是在教孩子如何在这个世界上行事，教他们什么是被期望的，什么是界限——而且这些界限是真实的，是为了他们的情感和身体安全，嗯，而且你这样做不仅仅是为了控制，而是你真的觉得“不，这很重要，因为这实际上影响你的成长和发展，不仅仅是为了我的娱乐”。那么你的孩子就会多信任你一点，关系也会更牢固。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but I think the key with discipline is not being afraid of how our kids react to it and having the strength of purpose and belief that if they do have a negative reaction to it we can love them all the way through it but we're not going to change our minds about it cuz that's where it gets messy is that and I I I think this is partly my whole field and Industry if we're talking all about how important the relationship is and then you have this limit that you set like this is my expectation of you and your child doesn't like it this simply like I you know I take the phone away at night or the iPad or whatever and your child is freaking out about it then you go well now I've messed with the relationship and so I guess I should they're crying and I need to like get back in there so okay I'll give you more time or whatever it is and that's where we get confused

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 但我认为管教的关键在于，不要害怕孩子对此的反应，并且要有目标感和信念感：如果他们确实有负面反应，我们可以全程爱着他们度过这个过程，但我们不会因此改变主意。因为那正是情况变得混乱的地方。我认为这部分也是我整个领域和行业的问题——如果我们一直在谈论亲子关系有多重要，然后你设定了一个限制，比如“这是我对你的期望”，而你的孩子不喜欢，很简单，比如我在晚上收走手机或 iPad 之类的，然后你的孩子为此抓狂。接着你会想：“哎呀，现在我破坏了关系，所以我猜我应该……他们在哭，我需要去安抚，所以好吧，我再给你多点时间。” 或者其他什么。这正是我们要么困惑的地方。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I think if parents really understood that feelings aren't dangerous that kids aren't going to say thank you for the boundaries and limits that we set and that we set them with the intention of physical and emotional safety about not just them but other people people like we're not just raising kids in a vacuum they have to move through the world and think about community and other humans and so what's comfortable for them might not be thoughtful to other people and so it's that balance between be there for yourself but also not to the extent that you can't you know that you're entitled and don't respect that there other people in the world

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我认为如果父母真的理解“感受并不危险”，理解孩子不会因为我们设定的界限和限制而说“谢谢”，理解我们设定这些是为了身体和情感安全——不仅是针对他们，也是针对其他人。就像我们不是在真空中养育孩子，他们必须在世界上行走，考虑社区和其他人类。所以对他们来说舒服的事情可能对其他人来说并不体贴。所以这就是一种平衡：既要关注自己，又不能达到那种觉得自己有特权、不尊重世界上还有其他人的程度。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yeah it's I I remember and I think my my mom got that right from why I can or at least followed that advice because I remember in my time it was a bit easier because we were just playing video games like that was the closest thing we had to a mobile phone right and it's I remember I'd get home from school and I was allowed to watch TV for 30 minutes and play video games for 30 minutes and after that to do homework then we'd have dinner and then whatever that you know and I remember that that hour was like something I looked forward to every single day because I'd get to watch whether it was The Simpsons or when I got older like Fresh Prince of Bel or whatever it was

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，我记得——我想我妈妈这点做对了，或者至少她遵循了那个建议——因为我记得在我那个年代稍微容易一点，因为我们只是玩电子游戏，那是我们拥有的最接近手机的东西，对吧？我记得我放学回家，被允许看 30 分钟电视，玩 30 分钟电子游戏，之后做作业，然后我们吃晚饭，然后做其他的。我记得那一个小时是我每天都期待的事情，因为我可以看《辛普森一家》，或者长大一点看《新鲜王子妙事多》（Fresh Prince of Bel-Air）之类的。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and then and and those rules kind of changed over time where I was like okay now you get a bit more PlayStation time or whatever else it may have been as I got older but I now look back and really valued the fact that I had these limits and rules and discipline because it's created a healthy level of discipline that I value today in me and yeah of course when I was a kid I didn't enjoy it like I didn't want to do my homework and turn off the te like who does want to do there but I feel like it was it's interesting how yeah my I don't think my parents negotiated with me or bargained with me with that stuff it was just like no that's just how it is

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 然后随着时间的推移，这些规则有所改变，比如“好吧，现在你可以多玩一会儿 PlayStation”或者其他的，随着我年龄的增长。但我现在回想起来，真的很看重我有这些限制、规则和管教的事实，因为它创造了一种健康的自律水平，这是我今天非常珍视的品质。是的，当然我小时候并不喜欢它，比如我不想做作业，不想关掉电视——谁想那样做呢？但我觉得很有趣的是，我不认为我的父母在这类事情上和我谈判或讨价还价，那就是：“不，规定就是这样。”

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: no it's true cuz it's like you I mean there's three kind of parenting Styles outside of neglectful which is not you know that's a whole other thing but there's like the permissive which is best friend parenting and it is so sensitive and they do like you and you can play as many video games as you want and all that's great except for you have no nobody's steering the ship and so it actually can lead to anxiety and depression and a sense that you are too responsible for things

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 不，这是真的。因为除了“忽视型（Neglectful）”——那是完全另一回事——主要有三种育儿风格。一种是“放纵型（Permissive）”，也就是“好朋友式育儿”。这种方式非常敏感，他们确实喜欢你，你可以想玩多少电子游戏就玩多少。这听起来很棒，除了你没有人在“掌舵（Steering the ship）”。所以这实际上可能导致焦虑和抑郁，以及一种你要对事情负过多责任的感觉。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and the other side of it is authoritarian where it's fear-based and it's just rules and it's just because I said so but without the like I know you really love doing this and I wouldn't stop you from doing it if I didn't know that it was better for your brain or whatever so that's the middle path of like authoritative where you're sensitive but you stick with your limits and boundaries because you know that that's going to benefit your kids

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 另一面是“专制型（Authoritarian）”，这是基于恐惧的（Fear-based），只有规则，仅仅是因为“我说了算”，而没有那种“我知道你真的很喜欢做这个，如果不是我知道这对你的大脑更好，我不会阻止你”的理解。所以，“权威型（Authoritative）”就是中间道路（Middle Path），你既保持敏感，又坚持你的限制和界限，因为你知道这将造福于你的孩子。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and then you start to cuz it's about our comfort like how much can I handle of you being upset with the boundary that I set set it's not like anything else it's really just looking at ourselves and saying what is my capacity for handling the discomfort knowing that I've made this choice because it's for my child's benefit because they're definitely not going to be like thank you so much and so when people say like this strategy isn't working I'm like that's not the goal the goal isn't for your kids to say oh thanks for explaining now I'm just was going to listen right

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 然后你开始明白，这其实关乎我们的舒适度：我能多大程度上承受“你对我设定的界限感到不高兴”？这不像其他事情，这真的是审视我们自己并问：“我知道我做这个选择是为了孩子的利益，但我承受那种不适感的能力有多少？”因为他们绝对不会说“太谢谢你了”。所以当人们说“这个策略不管用”时，我会说：“那不是目标。目标不是让你的孩子说：‘哦，谢谢你的解释，现在我会乖乖听话的。’”对吧？

章节 8：青春期的必然——叛逆是离巢前的独立演习

📝 本节摘要：

青春期的叛逆并非孩子的性格缺陷，而是大脑发育和生物进化的必然。Dr. Alisa 指出，青少年的前额叶皮层（负责理性决策的区域）要到 20 多岁才完全成熟，因此这期间他们往往处于“只有油门，没有刹车”的状态。更重要的是，她提出了一个极具启发性的观点：为了能够“离巢”，孩子必须学会“拒绝”父母。 如果家里的环境永远温馨舒适且毫无张力，孩子就没有动力去面对外部世界的挑战。因此，那些推开父母、甚至让父母感到受伤的时刻，其实是孩子正在演习如何成为一个独立的个体。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: that's so interesting isn't it it's like as as humans and as adults we believe that getting something right means knowing the right thing to say and getting the right response which is a response we want or agree with and the truth is half the time when you're doing the right thing you rarely get a response in that moment that is aligned with what you want

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 这真是有趣，不是吗？就像作为人类和成年人，我们认为“做对某事”意味着知道该说什么正确的话，并得到正确的反应——也就是我们想要或同意的反应。但事实是，有一半的时间，当你做着正确的事情时，你在当下很难得到符合你期望的反应。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: like I I always said to for me I feel like you know up until 11 I was a pretty good kid and obedient and then 11 to 21 I was totally the opposite and my parents were wrong about everything or maybe 14 to 21 and then when you're kind of like 25 you're like yeah you know what my parents were good like my parents were right about so many things and I'm so grateful to them and and all the rest of it like that kind of overarching feeling comes out which yeah as a 15-year-old you know you didn't have and and it's almost like we want them to display this like if if my parents wanted me to display gratitude at 15 it was never going to happen right

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 就像我常说的，对我而言，我觉得直到 11 岁我都算是个相当好的孩子，很听话。然后从 11 岁到 21 岁，我完全反过来了，我觉得我父母做什么都是错的——或者是 14 岁到 21 岁吧。然后当你到了大概 25 岁，你会觉得：“是的，你知道吗，我父母挺好的，他们在很多事情上是对的，我很感激他们。” 以及诸如此类的感觉，那种整体的感觉就出来了。但是是的，作为一个 15 岁的孩子，你知道你当时并没有那种感觉。这就像是我们希望他们表现出这种感激——如果我父母希望我在 15 岁时表现出感激之情，那是绝不可能发生的，对吧？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: no that's a great example actually yeah right but we all we all believe that we're the exception that our kids will do that yeah and yet we were also The Ungrateful kid right it's almost I find it because I'm not a parent I find it better to reflect on what I was like as a kid I know my parents had good intentions I know they tried their best I still chose to do things they would never agree with and I still chose to behave in ways and it wasn't because they did anything wrong it was just because I was a kid

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 不可能，这其实是个很好的例子。是的，对，但我们都相信我们是例外，相信我们的孩子会那样做。是的，然而我们也曾是那个“忘恩负义”的孩子，对吧？我发现这几乎……因为我不是父母，我发现反思我小时候是什么样会更好。我知道我父母是出于好意，我知道他们尽力了，但我还是选择做一些他们绝不会同意的事，我还是选择以某种方式行事。这并不是因为他们做错了什么，仅仅是因为我是个孩子。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: you were being a developing human your description of yourself mapping with brain development and it tracks right like 11 to 14 maybe you were just beginning to experiment with pushing them away and push back and rebellion and then you know that's like puberty happens hormones change then there's you know 14 to till you were in your 20s your prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop till 18 to 28 and boys it's later so it's it's usually not the 18 um and so you are more you know they say all gas no breaks

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 你当时是一个正在发育的人类。你对自己的描述完全对应了大脑发育（Brain Development）的过程，而且非常吻合。比如 11 到 14 岁，也许你刚开始尝试把他们推开、回击和叛逆；然后你知道，那就是青春期来了，荷尔蒙发生变化。然后从 14 岁一直到你 20 多岁——你的前额叶皮层（Prefrontal Cortex）直到 18 到 28 岁才会完全发育成熟，男孩通常更晚，所以通常不是 18 岁就结束了。所以你更多处于一种状态，也就是人们常说的：“只有油门，没有刹车（All gas, no brakes）”。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: um and so all the things you're talking about are mapping with where your brain was at the time and as an adolescent you're about to leave the nest and so you're supposed to start to learn how to reject and so it's this like Push Pull ideally there's still moments of connection and you know maybe they didn't you know it's possible I don't know but it's possible that they felt rejected by your rebellion and then you you know your pushing away then worked and so they didn't come toward you and say like despite all of this like we love you very much or maybe they did um but those are times of tension and you're supposed to by the time you're you're ready to go out into the world you have to feel like you you know you should and can and if it was just like cozy and delicious at all times at home and and there was none of that tension you wouldn't be motivated to grow up and go on so it all makes sense

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 嗯，所以你说的所有事情都对应了你当时大脑所处的阶段。作为一个青少年，你即将“离巢（Leave the nest）”，所以你应该开始学习如何“拒绝（Reject）”。所以这就是一种推拉（Push Pull）。理想情况下，仍然会有连接的时刻。你知道，也许他们没有……有可能，我不知道，但有可能他们因为你的叛逆而感到被拒绝，然后你知道，你把他们推开的策略奏效了，所以他们没有走向你说“尽管如此，我们依然非常爱你”——或者也许他们说了。但那些都是充满张力（Tension）的时期。当你准备好走进这个世界时，你必须感觉到你知道你应该并且能够这样做。如果家里一直都是温馨舒适、美妙无比，完全没有任何那种张力，你就不会有动力去长大并继续前行。所以这一切都是合理的。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: that is I've never heard it put that way and I've never thought of it that way that is such a fascinating point that in order to leave the pack you have to have a sense of rejection autonomy and Independence just in the idea of development yeah like there has to be that feeling of I can do it on my own and I will figure it out

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我从来没听过这种说法，我也从来没那样想过。这是一个如此迷人的观点：为了离开群体（Leave the pack），仅仅从发展的角度来看，你必须有一种拒绝感、自主权和独立感。是的，就像必须要有那种“我可以自己做，我会搞定它”的感觉。

章节 9：与青少年相处——从“热情的小狗”到“冷静的猫”

📝 本节摘要：

随着孩子进入青春期，父母最头疼的问题往往是：“为什么孩子不愿意跟我说话了？” Dr. Alisa 解释道，试图在危机爆发的当下强迫孩子开口往往适得其反。她建议将沟通建立在日常的低压时刻，例如开车或打匹克球（Pickleball）时，因为这些不需要眼神接触的场景能降低防御。最精彩的是，她提出了“狗与猫”的育儿隐喻：对待幼儿，我们要像小狗一样热情摇尾巴，时刻回应；但对待青少年，我们必须进化成一只“冷静的猫”——我在那里，我不走，但我不会扑向你，直到你主动靠近。这种“不具侵略性的在场”，才是青少年最需要的安全感。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: one of the things I was thinking about because you talk about here the idea of having a parent who's helping us through hard times and I was thinking I think one of the hardest thing about a young person going through a hard time is they don't have the vocabulary to talk about it I me even adults but kids especially even adult yeah even adults like you know it's hard even to ask your partner when they're going through a tough time let alone a child that and and I think with our children we try harder often than we try with our partners but with your child you're like tell me what's going on like I want to know I'm here to help you and they're like I don't know like go away like I don't know what I'm going through right walk us through that path and that process because again we feel so rejected and so distant and it almost feels like we're failing but the real issue here is we can't get them to open up and therefore we can't help

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我在思考你在书中提到的一点，关于拥有一个能帮助我们度过艰难时刻的父母。我在想，年轻人经历艰难时刻最困难的一点在于，他们没有足够的词汇（Vocabulary）来谈论它。我是说即使是成年人也很难，但孩子尤其如此。是的，即使是成年人，你知道，当你的伴侣经历困难时，去问他们也很难，更不用说孩子了。而且我认为我们对孩子往往比对伴侣更努力尝试。但对于孩子，你会说：“告诉我发生了什么，我想知道，我是来帮你的。” 而他们的反应就像：“我不知道，走开，我不知道我正在经历什么。” 对吧？带我们梳理一下这条路径和过程吧，因为我们再次感到被拒绝、感到疏远，这简直感觉像我们失败了。但真正的问题是我们无法让他们敞开心扉，因此我们无法提供帮助。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: yeah I mean it's so hard because if you push and for a lot of some kids are like disclosers like we there are people I was like let me tell you let me tell you everything mom to the point where she was probably like I I really don't need to know this much but um but then there are the more closed in closed up kids and also it just depends on your vocabulary that you've grown up with which is I think that going back to like even when you have limits and rules you want your kids to know as you're describing your mom that they have you so if you do mess up y you can still go to them toally instead of being terrified

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 是的，这太难了。因为如果你逼得太紧……有些孩子是“倾诉者（Disclosers）”，就像我以前那样：“让我告诉你，让我告诉你一切，妈妈。” 以至于她可能觉得：“我真的不需要知道这么多。” 但也有那些更封闭、更内向的孩子。而且这仅仅取决于你成长过程中所习得的词汇量。我想这回到了即使你有界限和规则，你也希望你的孩子知道——就像你描述你妈妈那样——他们拥有你。所以如果你真的搞砸了，你仍然可以去找他们，而不是感到恐惧。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so that's this weird thing where it's like here are my expectations also I want to name the fact that you're going to blow it sometimes and I want to be the person you come to yeah and that's something to say not when they're struggling and I think part of the reason why it's hard to get kids to open up is because we try to get in there when they're in the center of the struggle yes instead of like building the vocabulary and connection outside of it so you have the conversations and you give the language when nobody's In the Heat of the Moment so that when the heat of the moment comes they already know that they can come to you

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以这是一种很微妙的事情，就像是：“这是我的期望，但我也想指明一个事实，那就是你有时会搞砸，而我希望成为那个你来投奔的人。” 是的，但这不是在他们正在挣扎的时候说的话。我认为很难让孩子敞开心扉的部分原因在于，我们试图在他们处于挣扎中心的时候介入。而不是在挣扎之外建立词汇和连接。所以你应该在没人在“气头上（Heat of the Moment）”的时候进行对话、赋予语言，这样当危机时刻来临时，他们已经知道可以来找你。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and you can just say to them I can tell something's going on I'm here whenever or if everh and then just leave space A lot of times doing something with a kid who's not opening up like going for a drive even so you're not looking at each other and you know I can't think of any sport right now cuz I'm not super sporty but you know like playing I'm like what is it called when one does a game with someone pickle ballis so you go play pickle ball yeah you're playing pickle ball it's going to come up

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 你只需要对他们说：“我看出来有些事情发生了。无论何时，或者如果你想说的话，我就在这里。” 然后就留出空间。很多时候，和一个不愿敞开心扉的孩子一起做点什么——甚至只是开车兜风（Going for a drive），这样你们就不用看着对方。你知道，我现在想不出什么运动，因为我不是特别爱运动，但你知道就像玩……我在想那个叫什么来着？匹克球（Pickleball）。所以你们去打匹克球，是的，当你们在打球时，话题自然就会出来。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but you want to just like put little tiny moments where you say I'm askable I'm tellable and I'm not going to say anything and one of the things that helps is that when your kids do tell you something you say thank you for telling me before you have any other reaction and that may be your only reaction and then you give them a little space

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 你只需要投入一些微小的时刻，表达出“你可以问我，你可以告诉我，而我不会多说什么”。有一件事很有帮助，那就是当你的孩子确实告诉了你某事时，在你有任何其他反应之前，先说：“谢谢你告诉我。” 这可能是你唯一的反应，然后给他们一点空间。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and the other thing is like I this is developmental too but when you think about teenagers versus young kids with younger kids you want to be this is going to sound ridiculous if you don't think about animals this way but I do so tell me if resonates but you kind of want to be a dog you're waging your tail when you're excited to see them you're always there and you're like really enthusiastic and they need that

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 另一件事也是关于发展的。当你思考青少年与年幼孩子的对比时——对于年幼的孩子，你想成为……如果你不这样看待动物，这听起来会很荒谬，但我确实是这样看的，所以告诉我这是否引起共鸣——你有点想成为一只狗。当你见到他们时你会兴奋地摇尾巴，你总是在那里，你非常热情，他们需要那个。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but then as they get older imagine your 11 to 25y old self you need to be a cat so you're like a little you're there you're always around you're not you might you're touching their feet like you're not overly on top of them but if they're interested they can come to you but you're not going anywhere so it's like it's this safe thing where you're there for them but it's it's not so intense and then they have the opportunity to open up a little bit and when they do you don't pounce like a dog you stay a cat who's like welcoming the information but not you know saying oh my God and then you know cuz you don't want your kids to think you can't handle my truth so I'm not you're not the person to tell

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 但随着他们长大，想象一下你 11 到 25 岁时的样子，你需要成为一只猫。所以你就有点……你在那里，你总是在周围，你不是……你可能只是碰到他们的脚，你并没有过度地压在他们身上（Overly on top of them）。但如果他们感兴趣，他们可以走向你，而你哪儿也不去。所以这就像是一种安全感，你在那里支持他们，但这并不那么强烈（Intense）。然后他们就有机会稍微敞开心扉。当他们这样做时，你不要像狗一样扑上去，你要保持猫的状态——欢迎这些信息，但不要大惊小怪地说“天哪！”。因为你不想让孩子觉得：“你承受不了我的真相，所以你不是那个我可以倾诉的人。”

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yeah and I feel that's the hardest time to be the cat because you're scared about them getting involved in the worst stuff like whether it's drugs or um you know addiction to social media or getting involved in the wrong circles like that's the age at which it's going to happen yeah it's terrifying so yeah it's terrifying so they're and they're getting a driver's license they can drink now you know as you know as they get older it's like it's almost like those are the times where you want to be more yeah handson and you are that's why I say you're physically present like I think Toddlers and teenagers need you more present than anybody

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，我觉得那是最难做“猫”的时候。因为你害怕他们卷入最糟糕的事情，无论是毒品、社交媒体成瘾，还是混进错误的圈子。那正是这些事情可能发生的年纪。是的，这很可怕，所以……是的，很可怕。他们要考驾照了，他们现在可以喝酒了。你知道，随着他们长大，感觉就像那些时候你想更……是的，更亲力亲为（Hands-on）。

[Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 你确实是亲力亲为的。这就是为什么我说你要“身体在场（Physically Present）”。我认为幼儿和青少年比任何人都更需要你的在场。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: but we think teenagers are like off on their own and whatever but you're home like if they're going to a party you're home to greet them and look into their eyes so you don't need to ask if they've been drinking because you will know when you hug them and look in their eyes and you can have a conversation in a different kind of way than If you're sort of like I'm out you're out I you're older you you know take an Uber don't drive drunk I'll see you tomorrow

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我们以为青少年就是自己出去玩之类的，但你应该在家里。比如如果他们去参加派对，你要在家里迎接他们，看着他们的眼睛。这样你就不需要问他们是否喝酒了，因为当你拥抱他们、看他们的眼睛时你就知道了。这样你就可以用一种不同的方式进行对话，而不是像那种：“我出去了，你也出去了，你长大了，你知道，打个 Uber，别酒驾，明天见。”

章节 10：高风险话题——如何谈论社交媒体与酒精

📝 本节摘要：

面对社交媒体和酒精滥用这两个让父母最头疼的“噩梦”话题，Dr. Alisa 建议不要将其视为一次性的讲座，而是建立在持续关系基础上的长期对话。她强调利用脑科学（Brain Science）作为解释界限的依据——不是因为“我不准”，而是因为“你的大脑处于脆弱的成长期”。此外，她借用电影《莫欺少年穷》（*Mean Girls*）中的经典桥段警告父母不要落入“酷妈（Cool Mom）”的陷阱：孩子不需要你递上鸡尾酒来换取连接。相反，父母必须设定足够紧的界限，给青少年提供一个“安全的反叛对象”。如果没有任何界限供他们推翻，他们反而可能通过更极端的行为来寻找底线。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: what's a good way to have that social media substance conversation because that sounds like the worst nightmare for any parent I know it's how do you have that conversation and again it's like you can't define whether you're going to get the right answer back or whatever so what what kind of communication around those two specific things have been effective for parents or that you've seen

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 有什么好的方式来进行关于社交媒体和物质使用（Substance）的对话吗？因为这听起来像是任何父母最糟糕的噩梦。我知道这很难，你该如何进行那样的对话？再说一次，你无法确定是否会得到正确的回答或其他什么。那么，围绕这两个具体事项，你见过的或认为对父母有效的沟通方式是什么？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: okay so one of the things the most protective thing is that you just have the conversations the relationship and so you're like over time it's never one conversation and hopefully before they're teenagers you're starting to talk about what these things are and what they do to your brain and with substances for example we know that before certain ages your brain is so it it's in such a growth mode that you don't want to mess with that growth by putting substances in it

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 好的，最具保护性的事情之一就是你一直在进行这些对话，基于你们的关系。所以这随着时间的推移，绝不是一次性的谈话。希望在他们成为青少年之前，你就开始谈论这些东西是什么，以及它们会对大脑产生什么影响。以物质使用为例，我们知道在特定年龄之前，你的大脑处于一种极速生长模式，你不想通过摄入物质来扰乱这种生长。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so if they have any thoughts about future and hopes and goals now's the time to talk about that and explain that like at a certain point you're going to be able to drink at a certain point depending on what state you're in you're going to be able to smoke pot but right now your brain is at a vulnerable stage and so it's a bigger decision now and in this household it's not on the table and also if you make a mistake I'm the person you come to because your safety matters more to me than anything in the world so I'm never going you're never going to regret that so I think it's one of those things where it's both a a limit a boundary and a relationship and you're paying attention

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所以如果他们对未来、希望和目标有任何想法，现在就是谈论这个的时候。要解释清楚：在某个时间点你可以喝酒；在某个时间点——取决于你在哪个州——你可以抽大麻。但现在，你的大脑处于一个脆弱阶段（Vulnerable Stage），所以现在这是一个更重大的决定，而在我们家里，这是不可接受的（Not on the table）。同时，如果你犯了错，我是那个你应该来找的人，因为你的安全对我来说比世界上的任何事情都重要。所以我绝不会……你绝不会为此后悔。所以我认为这是一件既关乎限制、界限，又关乎关系和关注的事情。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so that's one the best friend parenting thing can be problematic because you're like well I'd rather them drink at home or I'd rather them get their drugs for me and this is we know from the literature it's just not so you don't want them to feel like you know we've sort of created a world where we want our kids to it's so easy that they don't even have to push back you're like handing them did you see Mean Girls the movie

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 这就是“好朋友式育儿（Best Friend Parenting）”可能会出问题的地方。因为你会想：“好吧，我宁愿他们在家里喝酒，或者我宁愿他们从我这里拿药。” 而我们从文献中得知，事实并非如此。所以你不想让他们觉得……你知道，我们某种程度上创造了一个世界，即使想让孩子……但这太容易了，以至于他们甚至不需要反抗。你就像是直接递给他们……你看过电影《莫欺少年穷》（Mean Girls）吗？

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: I haven't seen the new one but the original

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我没看过新版的，但我看过原版的。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: the original oh yeah I love the original you know Tina feay walks not Tina feay um Amy polar walks in like with with cocktails for all the girls when they're getting ready and they're just like ew it's like you don't you you might crave connection and desperately want to give them the things so that they're sticking with you but you're still the parent and there needs to be they need to know that it's hard to do those things you know like there are barriers so that you don't break the rules um overtly

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 原版的，噢是的，我爱原版。你知道 Amy Poehler（饰演 Regina 的妈妈）走进来，给所有正在准备的女孩端着鸡尾酒，而她们的反应就像是“呃……”。这就像，你可能渴望连接，拼命想给她们东西以便她们粘着你，但你仍然是父母。必须要有……她们需要知道做那些事情是很难的，你知道，要有障碍，这样你就不会公然打破规则。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so let's say they do end up drinking there's a difference between if your kid eventually ends up drinking because you've really made it clear they can't so maybe they've pushed it off so now instead of at 14 they're 17 and there's a difference between drinking where they're just taking some sips of a white claw and binge drinking and you talk about that with them like I can't if I can smell it on you or see it that's a problem but there's there's a message in there which is like if you're going to make a mistake make the mistake moderately and those are all the different ways to sort of help lay the ground work for them to do as best they can to keep safe but like you're not giving them the you know the permission and the cart blanch to just kind of do whatever

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 假设他们最终确实喝酒了。如果因为你明确表示不可以，他们推迟了尝试的时间——比如从 14 岁推迟到了 17 岁——这就是区别。而且喝几口 White Claw（一种含酒精苏打水）和酗酒（Binge Drinking）也是有区别的。你要和他们谈论这一点，比如：“如果我能在你身上闻到味道或者看到它，那就是个问题。” 但这里面传递了一个信息，那就是：“如果你要犯错，请适度地犯错。” 这些都是帮助他们奠定基础、尽可能保持安全的不同方式。但这并不意味着你给他们许可或全权委托（Carte Blanche），让他们想干什么就干什么。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yeah it's it's such a challenging balance it's so hard it's so hard like I was thinking about it when I was a kid if anything was off the table that was the most attractive thing in the world and I think that's very important to acknowledge is like it's still going to be attractive so if you set No Limits The the other side of it yes is there needs to be something for a teenager to push back on

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，这真是一个极具挑战性的平衡，太难了。我想起我小时候，如果有任何事情是“禁止的（Off the table）”，那它就是世界上最诱人的东西。我认为承认这一点非常重要，它依然会很诱人。所以如果你不设定任何限制……另一面就是，是的，青少年需要有一些东西来让他们进行“反推（Push back）”。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: so if you're like like I'm going to use an example that's less fraught clothing if you're like you can wear whatever you want I don't care and you see that your child is going out to a party in like something very revealing and you don't say anything then they're like I'm GNA try I'm gonna I I'm not even getting push back this must not be revealing enough I'm going to now wear something ridiculously like so revealing that it's offensive even to me but I'm going to do it cuz let's see what happens and your parent says nothing

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 没错。我会举一个没那么令人担忧的例子：服装。如果你说：“你想穿什么就穿什么，我不在乎。” 然后你看到你的孩子穿着非常暴露的衣服去参加派对，而你什么也没说。然后他们就会想：“我要试试，我甚至没有受到任何阻力，这肯定还不够暴露。我现在要穿一件极其荒谬的、暴露到连我自己都觉得冒犯的衣服，但我还要这么做，看看会发生什么。” 结果你父母还是什么都没说。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and at at a certain point it's like the parent is you're supposed to put on a sweatshirt and hide it from your parents take the sweatshirt off and like know that this is not something that is like their dream but that you can call them if you need them and if we make things so it's a balance because you need to be rejecting of your parents so make the limit tight enough that there's you know something to reject and there's something to do that's not dangerous

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 在某种程度上，父母的角色本应该是这样的：你应该（作为一个青少年）套上一件卫衣，瞒着父母，出门后再把卫衣脱掉。你要知道这并不是父母梦寐以求的事情，但如果你需要他们，你还是可以打电话给他们。如果我们把事情变得……所以这是一个平衡，因为你需要“拒绝”你的父母。所以要把界限设得足够紧，以便让他们有东西可以拒绝，有事情可以做，但又不至于危险。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: I know but that that's a really interesting point about needing to reject something and needing to have tension around something and it's almost like you removed the tension completely yeah what is there what's there to do what's there to do yeah no that's that's fascinating

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我知道，但关于“需要拒绝某事”以及“需要围绕某事产生张力”这一点真的很有趣。如果你完全移除了这种张力……是的，那还有什么可做的呢？是的，不，这太迷人了。

章节 11：构建自信——能力（Competence）胜于赞美

📝 本节摘要：

在这个充满比较和不安全感的社交媒体时代，如何培养孩子的自信？Dr. Alisa 提出了一个颠覆性的观点：自信源于能力（Competence），而非赞美（Praise）。 空洞地夸奖孩子“你真棒”并不能让他们感到自信，真正能建立自尊的是掌握具体的技能——无论是拉小提琴还是洗碗。Jay Shetty 分享了自己被迫去戏剧学校却因此改变人生的经历，印证了“技能带来自信”的道理。两人还探讨了何时该“外包”教学（如父母不擅长的数学），何时该共同探索（如一起修电视），强调了在技能习得过程中建立亲子连接的重要性。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: I want to talk about the flip side we talking about discipline talking about encouraging and I feel like the biggest thing people want to do at least at the root I find is wanting to raise a confident child right we don't you don't want your children to feel insecure about the way they look the way they think the way they act and that seems to be the biggest challenge of the day with social media and everything else and so there's there's a real sense today of insec City Envy comparison feeling less than how do you raise a confident human

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我想谈谈另一面。我们谈了管教，谈了鼓励。我觉得人们最想做的事情，至少从根本上来说，我想是培养一个自信的孩子，对吧？你不希望你的孩子对他们的外表、思维方式或行为举止感到不安全。而在当今社交媒体和其他一切的影响下，这似乎是最大的挑战。今天真的有一种不安全感、嫉妒、比较、感觉低人一等的氛围。你如何养育一个自信的人？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: well I think there are two parts of confidence that we can really cultivate... remember that competence builds confidence not praise like telling your kid they're amazing is not going to make them feel like they're amazing it's the competence like helping them develop the skills yes and those skills don't have to be that you're like a star violinist or tennis player it can be that you know how to cook or put the dishes away you know just just a fun functioning individual

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 嗯，我认为我们可以真正培养的自信有两个部分……记住，能力（Competence）建立自信，而不是赞美（Praise）。告诉你的孩子“你很棒”并不会让他们觉得自己很棒。是能力——比如帮助他们发展技能。是的，这些技能不一定非要是成为明星小提琴手或网球运动员，它可以是知道如何做饭或收拾碗筷，你知道，仅仅是成为一个功能健全的个体。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: and so we tend to do everything for our kids even if they're capable of doing it but then praise them as if that's building the confidence and so I think that's one thing and the other thing is helping them understand how they feel and how they are reading the room because then you start to go like okay I can trust myself and that is part of confidence as well

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我们倾向于为孩子做所有的事情，即使他们有能力自己做，然后却通过赞美他们，好像那样就能建立自信似的。所以我认为这是一方面。另一方面是帮助他们理解自己的感受以及如何“解读环境（Reading the room）”，因为这样你就会开始觉得：“好吧，我可以信任我自己。” 这也是自信的一部分。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: oh that competence and praise piece that's huge I love the way you said that because I've often thought about that with so many of my friends because I I was quite a shy and I would say oh somewhat I was insecure about my weight growing up and to some degree the color of my skin too like experiencing racism growing up and things like that and so when I went to high school my secondary school as we call it in England my parents forced me to go to public speaking and drama school and that was somewhat of worst nightmare in Parts but it was really amazing because it built a competency that then became really interesting and useful As I Grew into my teens

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 哦，那个关于“能力与赞美”的观点太重要了。我喜欢你的说法，因为我经常和很多朋友思考这个问题。我以前很害羞，而且在成长过程中我对自己的体重有些不安全感，某种程度上对肤色也是，比如成长过程中经历的种族主义之类的。所以我上高中——在英国我们叫中学——的时候，我父母强迫我去上公开演讲和戏剧学校。这在某些方面简直是噩梦，但这真的太棒了，因为它建立了一种能力（Competence），这种能力在我十几岁时变得非常有趣且有用。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and all of a sudden I felt like I had a skill that I could use and Implement and it was really helpful in so many ways and of course has gone on to change my life but I I look at that and I often tell some of my friends who are parents and I'll be like I promise you just work on a skill because that changed my life... I'm like no no no I promise you like it was developing skills that gave me confidence in myself

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 突然之间，我觉得我拥有了一项可以运用和实施的技能，这在很多方面都非常有帮助，当然这也改变了我的人生。但我看着那个经历，我经常告诉我一些为人父母的朋友，我会说：“我向你保证，只要专注于一项技能，因为那改变了我的人生……” 我会说：“不不不，我向你保证，正是发展技能给了我自信。”

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and you're right they start really small of you know you have a skill like I know my wife has the skill of she's really good at like techy stuff around the house which I'm horrific at and she like can fix the TV and fix this and that and like she she can do that because her and her dad used to do that and she has a competence around it and that as a kid was something she knew she was good at

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 你说得对，这可以从很小的事情开始。你知道拥有一项技能，比如我知道我妻子有一项技能，她真的很擅长处理家里的科技产品，而我对此一窍不通。她能修电视，修这修那。她能做到这一点是因为她以前和她爸爸一起做这些，她对此有能力感（Competence），那是她小时候就知道自己擅长的事情。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: and I think it's so interesting how we often think that even bonding time with our children has to be social uh and and of course that's awesome... but how do you see that parent child relationship based on social versus skill development and what what's good to Outsource what's good to in in-house

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 我觉得很有趣的是，我们通常认为与孩子的亲子时间必须是社交性质的。当然那也很棒……但你是如何看待基于社交与基于技能发展的亲子关系的？什么适合“外包（Outsource）”，什么适合在家里自己做？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: well I think if you you have to know yourself like if you're going to get frustrated with your kid because they are not uh as easy to explain math to you're probably not the best person to to help them along with the math but if you have something that you see even a kernel of interest in your kid like they're interested in seeing how you fix the TV spend the time helping them learn how to do that like you're it's a shared experience together it's a shared skill building even if you're terrible at it learn how to do it so that teaches them growth mindset

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 嗯，我认为你必须了解你自己。比如，如果你因为孩子很难理解数学而感到沮丧，那你可能不是帮助他们学数学的最佳人选。但如果你看到孩子有哪怕一点点的兴趣——比如他们有兴趣看你修电视——那就花时间帮他们学习怎么做。这是一个共同的经历，是共同的技能建设。即使你对此很在行，或者即使你很糟糕，那就一起学习怎么做，这样还能教给他们成长型思维（Growth Mindset）。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: the way attention works is you have to care you have to be interested so if you're trying to get your kid interested in something and skilled at violin and they just are not interested it's not going to it's the thing that you're looking for is for them to know whether it's bead making or tennis or violin it doesn't matter it's the act of working on something and getting better at it that builds the confidence

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 注意力的运作方式是你必须关心，必须感兴趣。所以如果你试图让孩子对某事感兴趣并在小提琴上有一技之长，但他们就是不感兴趣，那是行不通的。你要寻找的是让他们知道——无论是做珠子、打网球还是拉小提琴，这都不重要——重要的是致力于某件事并变得更好的过程（The act of working on something and getting better at it），这才是建立自信的关键。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: I mean certainly there are going to be some things cuz that's just what we're going for like I didn't know how to play tennis growing up and I am so annoyed like it just bothers me so much socially it bothers me as a grown woman I'm like I can't hang I can't do the fun things my friends are doing so I'm I force my kids to play tennis not competitively but just like you need to know how to do this but and and so I think you get a pass for a couple of those things and you just have to acknowledge to your kids like I don't care if you're interested in this is a me problem not a you problem but in general like let their interest lead

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我的意思是，当然会有一些事情是因为我们自己的追求。比如我从小不会打网球，这让我很恼火，在社交上真的很困扰我。作为一个成年女性，我觉得我没法融入，没法做朋友们做的有趣的事。所以我强迫我的孩子打网球——不是为了比赛，只是觉得“你需要知道怎么打”。我认为在这类事情上你可以有一两项特权，但你只需要向孩子承认：“我不在乎你是否感兴趣，这是一个‘我的问题（Me problem）’，不是‘你的问题’。” 但总的来说，要让他们的兴趣来主导。

章节 12：放下的智慧与终极建议——Jay Shetty 的“最后五问”

📝 本节摘要：

访谈接近尾声，Jay Shetty 分享了自己对未来育儿的深刻反思：谦卑与放手。Dr. Alisa 指出，育儿中最艰难也最核心的真理在于——我们唯一能控制的只有我们自己。在经典的“最后五问（Final Five）”环节中，Dr. Alisa 再次提炼了她的育儿哲学：最好的建议是接纳感受但规范行为；最坏的建议是只求孩子快乐；而她希望全世界遵循的一条法则，是学会“寻找美好（Hunt for the good）”。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: it's it's interesting how I feel like it's such a I've been reflecting on hopefully at one point being a parent in my life a lot and and all I keep coming back to is this a few two things that keep coming to me are humility releasing control and the acceptance that I don't always know what's best or right and allowing for someone else to evolve and grow just as I've had to despite my parents' best interests and that sounds like the most beautiful lesson and the biggest challenge at the same time because it's the thing you'd want to control the most yet can't

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 有趣的是，我觉得这是一个……我一直在反思，希望有一天我也能成为父母。而我不断回想到的几件事是：谦卑（Humility）、放手控制（Releasing Control），以及接受“我并不总是知道什么是最好或正确的”，并允许另一个人像我曾经那样去进化和成长——尽管那可能违背了父母的“最佳利益”。这听起来既是最美丽的教训，同时也是最大的挑战，因为这是你最想控制却又无法控制的事情。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: H I know it's the thing you want to control the most because it's the most important thing and it's like if we can accept that we can only control ourselves our parenting flourishes and and that in one sense is the harder answer because we always think we can change things outside of ourselves quicker than we think we need to change yeah that's that is the the the craziest thing about my job is that so much of it is and and psychologists in whatever area of psychology they're in because there's so many different branches and I'm not a clinical psychologist but even clinical psychologists who are sitting you know a lot of times they're they're meant to be working with children but what what ends up happening is they're working with the adults I'm only working with the adults but um but I think it's because adults can work on themselves and control themselves and we have this inclination to want to control our kids again it's all with the most Love and Hope but we can't and so that's not you know like that's not the best use of our energy

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 唉，我知道。这是你最想控制的事情，因为它是最重要的事情。这就好像，如果我们能接受“我们只能控制我们自己”，我们的育儿就会蓬勃发展。从某种意义上说，这是更难的答案，因为我们总是认为改变身外之物比改变自己来得更快。是的，这也是我工作中通过……最疯狂的事情。无论心理学家处于哪个领域（因为有很多不同的分支，我不是临床心理学家），但即使是那些本该与儿童一起工作的临床心理学家，最终发生的情况是，他们其实是在与成年人工作。我只与成年人工作。但我认为这是因为成年人可以致力于自身，控制他们自己。而我们有一种想要控制孩子的倾向——再说一次，这都是出于最深切的爱与希望——但我们做不到。所以那不是……你知道，那不是运用我们精力的最佳方式。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa it's been such a joy talking to you today honestly I feel like I've learned so much I've reflected so much and I want everyone who's listening and watching to know we have simply skimmed the surface of some of the insane and incredible topics and methods that are inside this book if you been listening and watching so far make sure you go and order the five principles of parenting by Dr Alisa prman host of the raising good humans podcast as well

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa，今天和你交谈真是太开心了。老实说，我觉得我学到了很多，反思了很多。我想让所有听众和观众知道，我们仅仅触及了这本书中那些疯狂而不可思议的话题和方法的皮毛。如果你一直在收听和观看，请务必去订购这本由《Raising Good Humans》播客主持人 Alisa Pressman 博士所著的《育儿五原则》（The Five Principles of Parenting）。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa we end every on purpose episode with a final five and these have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum so these are your final five uh the question the first question is what is the best parenting advice you ever heard received or given

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: Alisa，我们在每期 On Purpose 节目的最后都会进行“最后五问（Final Five）”，这些问题必须用一个词或最多一句话来回答。那么，这是你的最后五问。第一个问题是：你听到过、收到过或给出的最好的育儿建议是什么？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: all feelings are welcome all behaviors are not

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 所有的感受都是受欢迎的，但并非所有的行为都是。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: what is second question what is the worst parenting advice you've ever received or heard

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 第二个问题是：你收到过或听到过的最糟糕的育儿建议是什么？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: you just want your kids to be happy

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: “你只希望你的孩子快乐。”

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: question number three what's something you used to believe to be true around parenting but recently you've changed your mind about

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 第三个问题：关于育儿，有什么是你曾经深信不疑，但最近改变了看法的？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: that I would be better

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 我以为我会做得更好。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: wow that's that's beautiful that's beautiful question number four if you could encourage every parent to build one skill that would help them become a better parent for good humans what would that one skill be

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 哇，那真是……那真是太美了，太美了。第四个问题：如果你能鼓励每位父母建立一种技能，帮助他们成为养育善良人类的更好的父母，那会是什么技能？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: one of the five that makes you the most uncomfortable of relationship reflection regulation rules and repair

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 在这五个中，选择那个让你最不舒服的：关系（Relationship）、反思（Reflection）、调节（Regulation）、规则（Rules）和修复（Repair）。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: yes love that and Fifth and final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 是的，我很喜欢。第五个也就是最后一个问题：如果你能制定一条世界上每个人都必须遵守的法则，那会是什么？

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: hunt for the good

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 寻找美好（Hunt for the good）。

[原文] [Jay Shetty]: that's beautiful I love that Dr Alisa prman everyone the five principles of parenting is the book go and grab your copy right now... thank you so much

[译文] [Jay Shetty]: 太美了，我喜欢这句话。各位，Alisa Pressman 博士，书名是《育儿五原则》，现在就去买一本吧……非常感谢你。

[原文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: oh my gosh thank you so much this has been incredible thank you

[译文] [Dr. Alisa Pressman]: 天哪，非常感谢你，这真是太棒了，谢谢。